Small Texas community stands by man who killed daughter's alleged abuser

[uno]

Yeah, the father would probably want that kill undone.



What is the "forest" in this case then?

I agree with the decision not to charge the father.

But another question comes to mind. What was a 4 year old child doing all by herself, that allowed this guy to abduct her?

When my son was that age, we didn't let him out of our site for a minute.

apparently, the man grabbed her and quickly took her behind the barn. the dad quickly started calling her name and found them..

 

[mlp]

What is the "forest" in this case then?

Your (implicit) argument that, in the heat of the moment of observing a child being raped, the observer should make an informed decision as to whether the rapist is willing and able to commit acts of violence other than rape, ignores the context of violence in which this cool headed decision is supposed to be taking place.

I was ten when this happened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck, and even at that age, I realized the fatal naivete of people who think that their lives aren't at risk from those who are acting violently toward them.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I believe this took place in a small rural town where everyone knows everyone else. But still, ideally a child should be able to wander out of sight of her parents without having the first adult she encounters raping or abducting her. I used to walk to kindergarten and back when I was five. School was about half a mile away from home. Granted, those were very different times.

Yes, I remember in the farm in Ireland being able to walk off on my own at a young age to try and see the barn cats or something.

 

[Envy]

Your (implicit) argument that, in the heat of the moment of observing a child being raped, the observer should make an informed decision as to whether the rapist is willing and able to commit acts of violence other than rape, ignores the context of violence in which this cool headed decision is supposed to be taking place.

I was ten when this happened http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Speck, and even at that age, I realized the fatal naivete of people who think that their lives aren't at risk from those who are acting violently toward them.

No, I wasn't actually consciously implying that this time.

 

[mlp]

No, I wasn't actually consciously implying that this time.

You may not have been concsciously implying that, but then I fail to see the point of those posts other than argument just for argument's sake. Which is really not productive for any discussion.

 

[Digger]

Granted, those were very different times.

Yeah, I hate to sound like an oldster here but when I grew up you could still do crazy things like hitchhike across country, sleep on picnic tables in rest areas, and go trick-or-treating at night without a chaperone, without fear of being abducted. Don't get me wrong, we had our share of bad guys in the 70's, as they have existed throughout time, but it at least seemed safer then. Perhaps we were just naive.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Yeah, I hate to sound like an oldster here but when I grew up you could still do crazy things like hitchhike across country, sleep on picnic tables in rest areas, and go trick-or-treating at night without a chaperone, without fear of being abducted. Don't get me wrong, we had our share of bad guys in the 70's, as they have existed throughout time, but it at least seemed safer then. Perhaps we were just naive.

I really don't know. There used to be quite a taboo on talking about stuff like this, and on reporting it in the news too. Maybe the risk has always been the same, we just hear more about it now than we used to, so some of us see child molesters everywhere we look. I would guess that the occurrence in any given population of people who will become child rapists is probably pretty steady, but of course there are a lot more people in the world now than there were when I was little.

 

[Digger]

...but of course there are a lot more people in the world now than there were when I was little.

I think that's a large part of it... given that there are just simply a lot more people now... there are a lot more child molesters by default. More molesters bumping into more people... perhaps it's just about opportunity.

 

[Pickle Juice]

I think that's a large part of it... given that there are just simply a lot more people now... there are a lot more child molesters by default. More molesters bumping into more people... perhaps it's just about opportunity.

And it's not the sort of thing anyone wants to gamble their children's safety on anyway. I feel badly though that kids today can't be kids like I got to be when I was little.

 

[Digger]

I feel badly though that kids today can't be kids like I got to be when I was little.

Yeah, just as an example... in the small town where I grew up kids can only trick-or-treat now on a designated Sunday and only during daylight hours. When I was growing up you went out on Halloween, after dark, and it was one of the few nights that you got to stay up late. It was so cool and dark and spooky, I'd have hated to have to do it at 2:00 in the afternoon. Some of my fondest memories are of those late night Halloween escapades.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Yeah Halloween was the best. It was the only way to distract myself from the back to school blues. Anticipating Halloween and planning and making my costumes.

 

[Digger]

Yeah Halloween was the best. It was the only way to distract myself from the back to school blues. Anticipating Halloween and planning and making my costumes.

I went as Dracula almost every year... which is kinda funny now since vampires are kind of a thing with gay men. Why is that? Anyway, my latent homosexual tendencies seemed to come out even at an age where I didn't know WTF I was doing.

P.S. Sorry to derail the thread but as our much-lauded Texan father has been vindicated I figure it's okay.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Oh I was something different every year. We also had neighborhood costume contests, so it was a big deal to try to win with something unique.

Ok, back on topic: I would never have considered sentencing him if he had gone to trial and been convicted. He's not a threat to society, unless society comes to rape his children. To me prison should serve as a place to remove threats to society, and even though he is capable of violence and killing, he isn't a threat to anyone who isn't attacking his kids. I myself am thoroughly capable of doing just what he did should anyone mess with my nieces, but I am perfectly safe to live next door to, otherwise.

 

[GhostLikeSwayze]

Yeah, I hate to sound like an oldster here but when I grew up you could still do crazy things like hitchhike across country, sleep on picnic tables in rest areas, and go trick-or-treating at night without a chaperone, without fear of being abducted. Don't get me wrong, we had our share of bad guys in the 70's, as they have existed throughout time, but it at least seemed safer then. Perhaps we were just naive.

No offense, but naive.
While we were blissfully running about in the 70s and 80s eating pop rocks and drinking Coke to make our heads explode , this was going on:
http://crime.about.com/od/serial/a/william_bonin.htm -- Suspected in as many as 36 murders of children and young men (many of them hitchhikers) from 1979 until his arrest in 1980.
When poodle skirts and sock hops were the rage:
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Cops_Dig_For_Serial_Killer_Victims_Remains.html - Mack ray Edwards murdered as many as 18 children and buried them under California freeways as far back as 1953.

The presence of mass media and more "national" news, which started becoming more prevalent in the 60s/70s/80s has increased awareness. We also actually hear about crimes in volume now, when generally only the most heinous received coverage on a 30 minute national news segment.
Improved forensics, communication, and better data management/collection by law enforcement has also made a difference. Missing persons cases, particularly those involving teens and young adults, were often simply written off as runaways with little follow up unless a body was found. The Adam Walsh case was one of the first to force policy changes that addressed missing children/persons more aggressively.

Factor in a larger population and the perception is that things are worse, while in reality we simply did know exactly what dirt was going on back in the day. Our small towns seemed safe, but somebody was making the child pornography that could be legally purchased in the 60s (and in some cases until the 70s).

 

[Forster]

Yeah, just as an example... in the small town where I grew up kids can only trick-or-treat now on a designated Sunday and only during daylight hours. When I was growing up you went out on Halloween, after dark, and it was one of the few nights that you got to stay up late. It was so cool and dark and spooky, I'd have hated to have to do it at 2:00 in the afternoon. Some of my fondest memories are of those late night Halloween escapades.

That sucks, we're still on night hours on the actual day. I however am a lot less fond of halloween now. Dogs go nuts every time the doorbell rings. If I let them outside, they bark constantly at all the peeps going by.

One new trend that drives me frikken insane is the parents who follow their kids while trick or treating... in their cars. Jesus get out an walk a few blocks.

 

[Digger]

I myself am thoroughly capable of doing just what he did should anyone mess with my nieces, but I am perfectly safe to live next door to, otherwise.

I absolutely agree, PJ.

Though some posters have stated that they would have a problem living next to a man who could kill somebody like that... I myself would be quite happy to live next door to somebody who could do something like that. By all accounts he sounds like a nice young man who witnessed something terrible and did what was needed to protect his daughter. That is somebody who I would be quite pleased to live next to, personally.

Couldn't be happier with the outcome of this... and is what protecting your family is all about.

 

[Envy]

But if the person already has been raped, then there is no meaning to protect in the same sense.

 

[mlp]

Yes, I think all of this stuff was going on back then (and before); it just wasn't talked about much (the intra family abuse and abuse by trusted authority figures especially were swept under the rug), there was no 24/7 news cycle to be fed, and so people didn't focus on it/think about it constantly.

 

[Pickle Juice]

I absolutely agree, PJ.

Though some posters have stated that they would have a problem living next to a man who could kill somebody like that... I myself would be quite happy to live next door to somebody who could do something like that. By all accounts he sounds like a nice young man who witnessed something terrible and did what was needed to protect his daughter. That is somebody who I would be quite pleased to live next to, personally.

Couldn't be happier with the outcome of this... and is what protecting your family is all about.

Not just his daughter. The attacker was 47. Not very likely that this was his first time, and not very likely it would have been his last either. We can only guess how many other kids this guy saved from being attacked by this particular rapist, but I don't doubt there would have been many more.

 

[mlp]

But if the person already has been raped, then there is no meaning to protect in the same sense.

Well, in this particular case, I gather the father caught the rapist in the act. Are you saying that once penetration has taken place, the victim and/or bystanders should just relax and enjoy it?

Also, are you unaware of the fact that many rapes entail penetration of one or more orifices in quick succession?