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Soy nutritious, but...

Discussion in 'Health' started by Nekodaiden, May 19, 2018.

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  1. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    As many vegans use soy products (myself included), I thought it might be helpful for the health conscious to include the following as an FYI:





    Take home message (for me, anyway): Traditional soy products are fine (soaked/cooked soybeans, tofu, tempeh), however, concentrated/isolated soy protein (isolated soy protein/soy flour found in replacement meat products/TVP etc) raise IGF-1 (more than cow milk protein) and absolutely will not benefit those battling diseases such as cancer. It's a common theme in our modern world: Nature provides a whole nutritious food, and industry turns it into something potentially dangerous through nutrient division and concentration.
     
  2. Sax
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    Sax Active Member

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    Thanks for sharing.

    I'm continually amazed at how much medical research and nutritional wisdom can be summed up by two words: whole foods. I'm starting to think our bodies were made for the stuff! ;)
     
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  3. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    It seems like the video is misleading. Just because a food raises IGF-1... it doesn't mean that it contains industrial toxins and other carcinogens.

    I've been reading on how too much indigestible fiber prevents us from absorbing nutrients and it makes sense that tofu and other bean tofus are produced with the intention of removing the fiber as our digestive system isn't adapted to handle large amounts of indigestible fiber. Are these bean curds really considered whole foods?
     
  4. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    "Just because"?? Do you not understand the role of IGF-1 in cancer promotion and growth?

    Where are you drawing your conclusion that the point of the video is to highlight industrial toxins and "other carcinogens"? It's not there. Your summary is what is misleading.

    I've made tofu. Sigh. No fiber is removed! In fact, nothing is removed!

    Where are you getting this information about the human digestive system not being able to handle fiber??! More paleo-bs websites?

    Also, I notice you don't identify what your lifestyle, food consumption habits are in your quick-view profile (that is listed under your username with your posts). Perhaps you might benefit readers and newbies by being frank rather than hiding it.
     
  5. Emma JC
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    Emma JC Active Member

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  6. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    Hi Emma. I'm aware of Greger's videos on soy and have watched some of them. The title of this thread (and the video which is the focus of it) may be misleading in that it uses the general term "soy" but really the focus is on the isolated versions of it (isolated soy protein/soy flour etc) and it's effects on IGF-1.

    The author of the video has no problem with whole-food soy products such as tofu, tempeh etc.
     
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  7. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    Normal cells need to mutate into Cancer cells before IGF-1 can spur their growth. We need to focus on the elephant in the room... air pollution. How very few children these days walk to school anymore because of law and order type of tv shows that have fear mongered parents into driving their kids to school. Hence the greater amount of air pollution poisoning us. And how rail yards still use diesel locomotives that release huge amounts of diesel exhaust(carcinogens) near communities.

    I use to have brain cancer while not eating foods that increase IGF-1 levels. I developed brain cancer during a cold winter by the huge amount of locomotive diesel exhaust that would linger in the air because of the cold winter air and enter my house while I was sleeping and almost choked me to death. I eventually developed brain cancer as my brain cells mutated to be able to survive with limited amounts of oxygen.

    Soy isolate protein is bad because our bodies need minerals with the protein... https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/133/3/862S/4688029

    Isn't tofu made with soy milk(fiber removed)? If tofu can be made with fiber; why do Asians remove it?

    The human digestive system can't handle large amounts of INDIGESTIBLE fiber as it prevents nutrient absorption by acting as a sponge. This is why the Gerson therapy with vegetable juices works so well at killing cancer cells.

    Ripe fruit is digestible fiber on the other hand.

    Meat is disgusting whether cooked or raw and very high in industrial toxins.

    I'm a born nonconformist and don't need to identify with anything.
     
  8. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    Right, and when is the last time your body communicated to your brain (hey, you! I just cleaned up some mutated cells, feel free to ingest something that raises IGF-1, you'll be fine!)


    You mean, you'd like to change the subject of this thread on a food stuff (isolated soy protein) on a website who's theme is largely about how we eat to your pet topic - air pollution as if it's the be all end all of both health (subtopic of this forum) and Veganism (theme of this forum)


    You mean you *developed* brain cancer on a diet that did not increase IGF-1 levels or you simply ate a diet that did not increase them once you knew? World of difference. If it's the first, your statement doesn't match up with the science, if it's the second, you are basically claiming to be vegan for that time period, as well as avoiding things like isolated soy protein since it raises IGF-1.



    Isolated soy protein is harmful because it raises IGF-1, full stop. Your article does not make a case for "lack of minerals" in soy isolated protein and if it did, it would be untrue, since it contains plenty of minerals:
    http:confused:/nutritiondata.self.com/facts/legumes-and-legume-products/4389/1



    It depends on how it is made. Soy milk (from soy beans, not isolate) is made similarly to almond milks and other nut/seed milks. A mixture of the nut/seed/bean and water. 100 grams of soybeans does not equal 100 grams of soymilk. The milk, by necessity is a diluted form of the foodstuff used. That does not equal fiber *removal*, it equals the whole food in a percentage of what it would be because it is diluted in water. In the case of Tofu, a coagulant is used to turn the soy milk into a firmer substance. At no time is fiber removed. Tofu is by definition lower in most minerals and fiber than soybeans not because they have been *taken out*, or removed, but through the dilution of water. Just like 100 grams of raw almonds will have more nutrients in it than 100 grams of a 5% almond milk where the other 95% is water.


    Are you actually arguing that the proportion of fiber to minerals/vitamins in high fiber vegetable foliage effectively renders them useless as a source of nutrients? Really? My my. I better take Cabbage off my grocery list, as the little devil is hording (stealing?) all my minerals and vitamins in a meal with other food stuffs just so it can escape me to find it's way back to...the ground?

    Nature must have made a mistake. Cabbage and other high fiber nutritious vegetables are nutrient thieves and should be classed as poison! Enjoy the easy poo - knowing your crapping out all the good stuff!

    Oh, and since it's clear you aren't aware, Intestinal villus are responsible for nutrient absorption in the small intestine ( https:confused:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intestinal_villus) and that indigestible fiber you've demonized is largely responsible for keeping them in tip-top shape. Mucous forming foods (meat/eggs/dairy/alcohol/other pollutants/toxins) clog them, fiber helps clean them.

    The fiber that makes it to the large intestine (yes, even the "indigestible" type) is partially digested by bacteria in the colon, provided there are enough of them residing there through the influence of a continued diet of fiber, and not animal products.


    Conformist has nothing to do with it. You are hiding your lifestyle habits by refusing to identify. So far, you've linked to a paleo author, declared B3 hard to acquire without animal products (ie: on a vegan diet without supplementing it), said grains "don't count" because not "everyone"(you?) can digest them (in saying this you cover all grains in a blanket statement), made misstatements about how tofu is made, said we all need to focus on the real problem (air pollution) and insinuated that Nature screwed up providing all that fiber in whole plant foods (er, except for ripe fruits according to you), and man needs to improve on them (by removing fiber that isn't really removed, just diluted in nut/seed/bean milks)...yes, Nature screwed up and man comes to the rescue because soft easy poos (without ripe fruit) are in fact a luxurious deception...only a man who's poos are hard as a rock can be sure he's not being robbed by fiber rich nutrient thieves!)

    My guess is you are pretty far from vegan, have little to no experience with it, but nevertheless are displaying your ignorance and giving health advice on a vegan website.
    You've also attempted to derail my simple FYI thread with all your misstatements and your misrepresentation of the video (which you clearly did not watch/understand or purposely sought to misrepresent)

    Congratulations, this level of trolling requires a few more brains than the average idiot who signs up only to declare his sadness for plants as sentient life forms or claims B-12, protein or zinc deficiency in the first week of his veganism.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  9. Consistency
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    Consistency Active Member Banned

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    3 sprinters are sprinting... sprinter #1 trips sprinter #2 and then sprinter #2 runs into sprinter #3, causing injury. Whose at fault for the collision?

    Too much fiber. Not no fiber. Two wrongs(extremes) don't make a right.

    Just because I don't address your points in other threads and now this thread, it doesn't automatically mean that you're right. It could mean that I've chosen not to reveal something and this isn't indicative of stupidity.
     
  10. Veganite
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    Veganite Super Moderator Staff Member

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    You could've fooled me.

    I believe the OP has made their points. Nekodaiden can message me if he feels a need to re-open the thread.
    Thread closed!
     
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