Star trek or star wars?

[Paul Bradford]

Please tell me the gravitational force that is able to hold trillions of gallons of water to a spinning planet but cannot hold down a helium or hydrogen balloon at the same time. Surely you do not think the calculation (or measurement of gravity's force )is the same for both - which is exemplified in my previous statement that gravity is a very convenient and flexible force - capable of being extremely strong or extremely weak when it suits either argument.

I'm sorry . somehow I missed this reply.
You are confusing Buoyancy with Gravity, the two can co exist, and work together, or fight each other.
Yes, the same calculations are applied to both water and helium when predicting the effect of gravity, part of the calculation includes the mass of the substance, hence gravity has a greater effect on substance of greater mass.

 

[Nekodaiden]

I'm sorry . somehow I missed this reply.
You are confusing Buoyancy with Gravity, the two can co exist, and work together, or fight each other.
Yes, the same calculations are applied to both water and helium when predicting the effect of gravity, part of the calculation includes the mass of the substance, hence gravity has a greater effect on substance of greater mass.

I’m not confusing anything, and I’m reckoning the “calculations” you refer to you cannot site and prove.

If you take 2 sheets of A4 paper, and drop them as is, they will fall at roughly the same speed and hit the ground at the same time.

If instead you crumple one into a ball and leave the other as a sheet, the paper crumpled into a ball will fall faster and hit the ground first. Try it for yourself if you doubt.

The mass of either isn’t changed, only it’s resistance to the air via aerodynamic drag. The balled up paper has less of this drag, so will fall faster. Nothing to do with “gravity”.

 

[Paul Bradford]

Really? so why do they fall down? they could fall in any direction. so what is the force that, no matter where you are on the planet, things always fall towards the centre of a body, unlesss they encounter something that impedes the fall?

 

[Lou]

Moving on.
Did you hear Light Sabre Dueling could become an Olympic Sport?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/we...ars-lightsaber-fighting-Olympics-France-Paris

 

[Nekodaiden]

Really? so why do they fall down? they could fall in any direction. so what is the force that, no matter where you are on the planet, things always fall towards the centre of a body, unlesss they encounter something that impedes the fall?

I've already explained this. The basics of density and buoyancy are concepts that are foreign because it's not something most people are taught in their government funded schools. Here are some videos that explain it better than I can in words:

 

[Paul Bradford]

L

I've already explained this. The basics of density and buoyancy are concepts that are foreign because it's not something most people are taught in their government funded schools. Here are some videos that explain it better than I can in words:

Both those explain buoyancy, you haven't explained why everything on earth moves towards the centre of the earth, that is, when two heavier than air objects are released, they both accelerate in the same direction. Which force dictates the direction in which they travel?

 

[Nekodaiden]

L


Both those explain buoyancy, you haven't explained why everything on earth moves towards the centre of the earth, that is, when two heavier than air objects are released, they both accelerate in the same direction. Which force dictates the direction in which they travel?

They explain both buoyancy and density. Not just buoyancy. You need to watch again and pay closer attention.

A submarine in water – does it fall, stay the same, or rise? It all depends on...what? It’s density relative to the water. To decrease density, it increases buoyancy. Increase buoyancy enough and the sub will rise. To decrease buoyancy, it increases density. Increase density enough and the sub will dive.

The only “default” direction is in your mind, because you have been (most of us have been) programmed with the idea of gravity from very early in your childhood. This, however, is not reality. The only factors (outside of applied force) that affect whether an object rises, falls or stays the same in a medium is its' buoyancy and density relative to that medium. That’s it.

 

[Paul Bradford]

They explain both buoyancy and density. Not just buoyancy. You need to watch again and pay closer attention.

A submarine in water – does it fall, stay the same, or rise? It all depends on...what? It’s density relative to the water. To decrease density, it increases buoyancy. Increase buoyancy enough and the sub will rise. To decrease buoyancy, it increases density. Increase density enough and the sub will dive.

The only “default” direction is in your mind, because you have been (most of us have been) programmed with the idea of gravity from very early in your childhood. This, however, is not reality. The only factors (outside of applied force) that affect whether an object rises, falls or stays the same in a medium is its' buoyancy and density relative to that medium. That’s it.

just answer this single question.
when an object of greater density than the medium in which it is surrounded, which direction does it go?

 

[Forest Nymph]

I've already explained this. The basics of density and buoyancy are concepts that are foreign because it's not something most people are taught in their government funded schools.

LOL that's rich since you don't even understand that the Earth is spherical and tilts, and if it did not tilt 23.5 degrees and change the direction of its tilt, we wouldn't have change of seasons (Northern summer in half the year, Southern in the other half) AND that if the earth did not rotate, we would not have different climactic patterns on different areas of the world, and that the actual speed of the rotation affects warmer temps at the Equator and cooler temps at the Poles. Then, due to the Coriolis Effect (something you can see for yourself) your toilet flushes counterclockwise in the US but clockwise in Australia. This is basic Earth Science and stuff that is easily tested in practical terms without doing complex equations. Basic physical geography, oceanography, and meteorology teaches you all of this. The Earth being round and rotating is actually one of the easiest things to prove and to observe for yourself (even if you believe that NASA is the Illuminati and don't believe photos of Earth from space are real, people knew and understood the Earth was round due primarily to ship routes in the ocean hundreds of years before space travel was possible).

Earth science is my jam, you're asking people to explain Masters level Physics to you on some preposterous notion that you could even begin to understand it if they did. I never claimed to be a physicist, but one not need specialize in physics to see for themselves that the Earth is a rotating sphere and that gravity is a legitimate force. All of your questions of why some substances fall while others fly has to do with your basic misunderstanding of chemistry more so than any conspiratorial plot by the government. We don't all even live in the same country! What the hell are you even talking about?

 

[TofuRobot]

So, which series is more vegan? Maybe that will help me decide.

 

[Forest Nymph]

just answer this single question.
when an object of greater density than the medium in which it is surrounded, which direction does it go?

All of this is an elaborate rationalization on the part of manmade climate change deniers. You see if the earth is flat rather than spherical, doesn't rotate and tilt as a sphere, then they feel that they can "disprove" something about weather and climate, since many of these issues are fundamentally grounded in the simple every day workings of the earth. It's quite fascinating the lengths some of the smarter ones will go to misuse science principles (the people who actually make the videos) and it's relatively easy for them to mislead a general public that doesn't remember doing experiments with helium balloons in fifth grade, or who were too preoccupied with friends and dating to pay attention to 9th grade earth science.

I had a ridiculous conversation with a man once who had minored in Geology over a decade ago, who remembered some of the basic aspects of geology - but had pretty much intentionally perverted the blanket statement that the climate had always changed due to geological epochs. When I calmly tried to explain (he was a friend of mine) why most geological epochs are quite different from the Anthropocene, he began to yell and hysterically talk over me and wouldn't even allow me to tell him why. He otherwise had admitted he was an extremely poor college student who had barely graduated with the required passing grades, that his academic performance had been so poor he wasn't even allowed to take certain classes for field trips. and he smoked weed every day all day long, so clearly he had either never learned the appropriate information to begin with, or had long forgotten it due to intellectual laziness and came up with these conspiracies due to marijuana-related paranoia.

Most of them won't allow you to teach them why they're wrong because they have an emotional investment into things like believing in the Illuminati, or fearing climate change so much they'd make up anything to refrain with having to deal with the reality of it. Your patience is admirable, and your questions are calmly stated like that of a teacher or professor, but even my Climate/Energy prof who is a good-natured, calm dude has said he now doesn't even waste energy on these people because it was always a waste of time. the people would never listen open-mindedly or research what he was saying for themselves, and their ultimate comeback was always something simplistic and moronic like "brain washing!" and "government tho!"

 

[Nekodaiden]

just answer this single question.
when an object of greater density than the medium in which it is surrounded, which direction does it go?

It goes down. You’re going to follow up with “what force brings it down?”, as if there is an additional force outside of density-to-medium that is necessary to determine the down direction.

But if I turned your question around and asked “when an object of lesser density than the medium in which it is surrounded, which direction does it go?

And you say “up”, you won’t be thinking of any extra “up force” outside of less density-to-medium(buoyancy)…because an extra force that makes things go up isn’t something you have been programmed with.



Think about the submarine. No default up or down direction. The only thing that determines up or down direction (again, outside of applied force) is density to the medium, or lack of it to the medium (also called buoyancy).

 

[Forest Nymph]

It goes down. You’re going to follow up with “what force brings it down?”, as if there is an additional force outside of density-to-medium that is necessary to determine the down direction.

But if I turned your question around and asked “when an object of lesser density than the medium in which it is surrounded, which direction does it go?

And you say “up”, you won’t be thinking of any extra “up force” outside of less density-to-medium(buoyancy)…because an extra force that makes things go up isn’t something you have been programmed with.



Think about the submarine. No default up or down direction. The only thing that determines up or down direction (again, outside of applied force) is density to the medium, or lack of it to the medium (also called buoyancy).

Water and air have different laws that apply to them due to the lightness of air. This is due to the high concentration of nitrogen in our atmosphere (about 78%) which is much heavier than helium, due to their arrangement of photons, neutrons and electrons. These aren't philosophical questions, they're questions that you could answer by taking a refresher chem course (if you've ever even taken chemistry). There you could find the molar mass of H20, etc.

If you can't build your arguments on even a basic foundation of the sciences (chemistry, geography/oceanography, GIS) that you get as either an academically bright high school student or hopefully in your first few years of college, then your arguments are automatically invalid. You can't just throw words from physics around as "proof" that you know better, when physics is beyond the comprehension of most people who aren't abstract wizards, particularly when the questions you're ostensibly debating are actually much more concrete and easy to see/prove.

I loved physical geography and ocenography, they were my favorite classes. All meterology and climatology have their roots in these basic Earth sciences, and I urge you to actually do some research on these subjects if you'd like to better understand how the Earth works. These are concepts easily learned by concrete, factual learners who enjoy hands-on labs, and not beyond the scope of the average person who actually wants to learn (rather than just making up silly pointless arguments that don't even make sense).

 

[Nekodaiden]

LOL that's rich since you don't even understand that the Earth is spherical and tilts, and if it did not tilt 23.5 degrees and change the direction of its tilt, we wouldn't have change of seasons (Northern summer in half the year, Southern in the other half) AND that if the earth did not rotate, we would not have different climactic patterns on different areas of the world, and that the actual speed of the rotation affects warmer temps at the Equator and cooler temps at the Poles.

The seasons, as we both will agree, are a consequence of an earth region being closer to or farther away from the sun. You believe this necessitates a rotating earth. However, the same effect can be achieved by a stationary earth with a sun that moves across it, changing it’s path or circuit throughout the year.

Then, due to the Coriolis Effect (something you can see for yourself) your toilet flushes counterclockwise in the US but clockwise in Australia. This is basic Earth Science and stuff that is easily tested in practical terms without doing complex equations. Basic physical geography, oceanography, and meteorology teaches you all of this.

Here’s your Coriolis Effect completely debunked:

The Earth being round and rotating is actually one of the easiest things to prove and to observe for yourself (even if you believe that NASA is the Illuminati and don't believe photos of Earth from space are real, people knew and understood the Earth was round due primarily to ship routes in the ocean hundreds of years before space travel was possible).

Go back to my earlier post. The stationary earth has already been scientifically proven, and I’d be interested in seeing how one can “prove for oneself” that it rotates. I find this very amusing. If you take a plane on an E-W path from A to B, where this is a substantial distance, and then form B to A (the same distance), you’ll notice that if you factor in the supposed spin of the earth, the time it takes to travel should greatly differ. However, this is not the case. Some time difference is seen, but nothing like it should be when taking into account the supposed spin of the earth.


Now, for “observing myself” the curve – pray tell how to do this, especially when we have footage like this:

You’ll see that due to the type of camera used, when tilting radically up or down, the earth can appear curved, but also concave! Although mostly it shows a flat plain. A sun hot spot is also visable. Sorry, this hot spot is not possible if the sun is 93 million miles away. It proves, rather, a local sun.

Earth science is my jam, you're asking people to explain Masters level Physics to you on some preposterous notion that you could even begin to understand it if they did. I never claimed to be a physicist, but one not need specialize in physics to see for themselves that the Earth is a rotating sphere and that gravity is a legitimate force. All of your questions of why some substances fall while others fly has to do with your basic misunderstanding of chemistry more so than any conspiratorial plot by the government. We don't all even live in the same country! What the hell are you even talking about?

 

[Veganite]

Star Trek or Star Wars? That was the topic.

Now ask yourself, why did this thread close or why did I delete your posts? You should be asking, why didn't I delete more? If that's what it takes, that's what I'll do.

I also don't recommend opening another thread to continue this argument.