The Genghis Khan of the animal world

[cornsail]

I still say Genghis Khan was the Genghis Khan of the animal kingdom.

 

[cornsail]

Either that or tigers.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Genghis made a mean burger, so they say.

 

[rainforests1]

I recall having a conversation on VB with someone who claimed China treats animals worse than they do in the United States. They mentioned dogs but not too many other animals. They seemed ignorant from what I could tell. It's a shame you don't hear much about animal rights in other countries.

 

[cornsail]

I recall having a conversation on VB with someone who claimed China treats animals worse than they do in the United States. They mentioned dogs but not too many other animals. They seemed ignorant from what I could tell. It's a shame you don't hear much about animal rights in other countries.

Not as much perhaps. But, for example...

The Brazilian Supreme Court has ruled so as to ban popular traditions that involve animal suffering.

http://www.animallaw.info/nonus/articles/ovbrazil.htm

According to the tenets of Hinduism, every animal must be given the right to live and slaughtering of animals for meat is considered one of the most heinous sins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_in_India

The Philippine Animal Welfare Society (PAWS) is a volunteer-based non-government organization whose goal is to prevent animal cruelty through education, animal sheltering and advocacy. PAWS believes that the creation of a more peaceful society starts with the widening of mankind's circle of compassion which includes animals, thereby envisions a nation that respects animals, practices responsible pet ownership and protects wildlife.

http://www.paws.org.ph/site/1/default.aspx

 

[das_nut]

I recall having a conversation on VB with someone who claimed China treats animals worse than they do in the United States.

Google bile bears.

 

[Tom L.]

Cyanobacteria laughs at your puny extinction.

(It's amazing how fragile life is on this earth.)

Interesting. I think I'd heard about the Huronian glaciation event but didn't know what had triggered it.

 

[Calliegirl]

Google bile bears.

And don't forget the fur farms where the animals are skinned alive by the thousands. All countries are guilty of animal abuse, especially when it comes to factory farming, but China does seem to exceed everyone else is their brutality towards animals.

 

[rainforests1]

My question is how much of the suffering in foreign countries is the United States responsible for? McDonald's has a big international market. Do the foreign countries accept them voluntarily, or does the United States bully on countries to get them to accept it? Pesticides cause problems to birds and insects, among others. I believe many American companies benefit from this. Did foreign countries accept pesticides voluntarily, or did we bully on them to accept it? Fish farms do no good for foreign countries. Why would a foreign country agree to these when they only hurt the poor of their country in the long-term? If the United States bullies on countries, forcing them to accept forms of animal cruelty that they wouldn't otherwise accept, they have responsibility for the animal cruelty. You'd have to know what goes on behind the scenes before judging who is worst. Honestly I don't think most people want to know what goes on behind the scenes.

 

[Mischief]

I recall having a conversation on VB with someone who claimed China treats animals worse than they do in the United States. They mentioned dogs but not too many other animals. They seemed ignorant from what I could tell. It's a shame you don't hear much about animal rights in other countries.

I don't think the ignorance was on their part - you are the one who needs to educate yourself about China's record with respect to animals. People have given you several starting points.

 

[rainforests1]

I don't think the ignorance was on their part - you are the one who needs to educate yourself about China's record with respect to animals. People have given you several starting points.

You didn't read the conversation. They called me a Nazi(a very ignorant comment considering I despise most of what Hitler stood for) then they claim American factory farms are "regulated". Somehow that makes it better than China's treatment of animals. You can't possibly treat animals worse than they do in US factory farms. You'd have to go over every different form of animal cruelty to determine who treats animals worse. This would include farm animals, pets, fish, and animal research, among other things.

 

[das_nut]

You didn't read the conversation. They called me a Nazi(a very ignorant comment considering I despise most of what Hitler stood for) then they claim American factory farms are "regulated". Somehow that makes it better than China's treatment of animals. You can't possibly treat animals worse than they do in US factory farms. You'd have to go over every different form of animal cruelty to determine who treats animals worse. This would include farm animals, pets, fish, and animal research, among other things.

Have you googled bile bears yet?

Here, let me help:

Bear bile has historically been used as an ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine. The traditional way to acquire bear bile was to kill a wild animal and remove its gall bladder. In the early 1980s, however, bile bear farms began appearing in North Korea, eventually spreading to other regions.[1] The practice of bile bear farming has been ethically controversial because of cruel treatment of the bears alleged by bile-farming opponents.[citation needed] The Chinese government, however, has attempted to justify bear farming, claiming that the farms promote captive breeding and reduce the need to hunt and kill wild bears. Nonetheless, the bears continue to be hunted in the wild in order to supply bears to the bile farms, allegedly because of difficulties with captive breeding[2], where a gall bladder can fetch up to $3000 - $5000 USD.[3]
Living conditions[edit source | editbeta]

To facilitate the bile milking process, the bears are commonly kept in extraction cages, also known as crush cages, that measure around 2.6 feet x 4.4 feet x 6.5 feet (79 cm x 130 cm x 200 cm) for an animal that weighs between 110 to 260 pounds (50 to 120 kg).[citation needed] While this allows for easier access to the abdomen, it also prevents the bears from being able to stand upright, or in some cases move at all. Living for 10–12 years under such circumstances results in severe mental stress and muscle atrophy.[5] The Chinese media reported an incident in which a mother bear, having escaped her cage, strangled her own cub and then killed herself by intentionally running into a wall. In two model Chinese bile farms, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) reports that the bears are moved to the crush cages for milking, but the rest of the time live in a cage large enough to stand and turn around.[citation needed]

The World Society for the Protection of Animals sent researchers to 11 bile farms.[citation needed] They reported seeing bears moaning, banging their heads against their cages, and chewing their own paws. The mortality rate is high. Bile bears suffer from a variety of physical problems which include loss of hair, malnutrition, stunted growth, muscle mass loss, and often have their teeth and claws extracted.[citation needed] When the bears stop producing bile after a few years, they are usually killed for their meat, fur, paws and gall bladders. Bear paws are considered a delicacy, and have been seen priced at $250.[citation needed]

According to the HSUS, the bile is usually extracted twice a day through an implanted tube, producing 10–20 mL of bile each time; the process is believed to be painful, as the bears can be seen moaning and chewing their paws while being milked. Other methods include pushing a hollow steel stick through the bear's abdomen. The use of metal catheters has been banned, though HSUS writes that bile bears are still seen with catheters in them.[citation needed]

The "free drip" method is regarded as more humane. A permanent hole or fistula is made in the bear's abdomen and gall bladder, from which bile drips out freely. The wound is vulnerable to infection and bile can bleed back into the abdomen, causing a high mortality rate. Sometimes the hole is kept open with a perspex catheter, which HSUS writes causes severe pain. Additionally, the bears are sometimes fitted with an iron vest, as otherwise they may hit their stomach, possibly in response to the pain.[citation needed]

- Wikipedia.

 

[Calliegirl]

Have you googled bile bears yet?

Here, let me help:

Bear bile has historically been used as an ingredient in traditional Chinese medicine. The traditional way to acquire bear bile was to kill a wild animal and remove its gall bladder. In the early 1980s, however, bile bear farms began appearing in North Korea, eventually spreading to other regions.[1] The practice of bile bear farming has been ethically controversial because of cruel treatment of the bears alleged by bile-farming opponents.[citation needed] The Chinese government, however, has attempted to justify bear farming, claiming that the farms promote captive breeding and reduce the need to hunt and kill wild bears. Nonetheless, the bears continue to be hunted in the wild in order to supply bears to the bile farms, allegedly because of difficulties with captive breeding[2], where a gall bladder can fetch up to $3000 - $5000 USD.[3]
Living conditions[edit source | editbeta]

To facilitate the bile milking process, the bears are commonly kept in extraction cages, also known as crush cages, that measure around 2.6 feet x 4.4 feet x 6.5 feet (79 cm x 130 cm x 200 cm) for an animal that weighs between 110 to 260 pounds (50 to 120 kg).[citation needed] While this allows for easier access to the abdomen, it also prevents the bears from being able to stand upright, or in some cases move at all. Living for 10–12 years under such circumstances results in severe mental stress and muscle atrophy.[5] The Chinese media reported an incident in which a mother bear, having escaped her cage, strangled her own cub and then killed herself by intentionally running into a wall. In two model Chinese bile farms, the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) reports that the bears are moved to the crush cages for milking, but the rest of the time live in a cage large enough to stand and turn around.[citation needed]

The World Society for the Protection of Animals sent researchers to 11 bile farms.[citation needed] They reported seeing bears moaning, banging their heads against their cages, and chewing their own paws. The mortality rate is high. Bile bears suffer from a variety of physical problems which include loss of hair, malnutrition, stunted growth, muscle mass loss, and often have their teeth and claws extracted.[citation needed] When the bears stop producing bile after a few years, they are usually killed for their meat, fur, paws and gall bladders. Bear paws are considered a delicacy, and have been seen priced at $250.[citation needed]

According to the HSUS, the bile is usually extracted twice a day through an implanted tube, producing 10–20 mL of bile each time; the process is believed to be painful, as the bears can be seen moaning and chewing their paws while being milked. Other methods include pushing a hollow steel stick through the bear's abdomen. The use of metal catheters has been banned, though HSUS writes that bile bears are still seen with catheters in them.[citation needed]

The "free drip" method is regarded as more humane. A permanent hole or fistula is made in the bear's abdomen and gall bladder, from which bile drips out freely. The wound is vulnerable to infection and bile can bleed back into the abdomen, causing a high mortality rate. Sometimes the hole is kept open with a perspex catheter, which HSUS writes causes severe pain. Additionally, the bears are sometimes fitted with an iron vest, as otherwise they may hit their stomach, possibly in response to the pain.[citation needed]

- Wikipedia.

Here's the cliff notes version...
Bears are continuously tortured for their entire lives because of an old wives tale. And instead of educating it's citizens that it's a bunch of nonsense, China is actually promoting it and offering grant money for people to continue to use TCM.

 

[FortyTwo]

You didn't read the conversation. They called me a Nazi(a very ignorant comment considering I despise most of what Hitler stood for) then they claim American factory farms are "regulated". Somehow that makes it better than China's treatment of animals. You can't possibly treat animals worse than they do in US factory farms. You'd have to go over every different form of animal cruelty to determine who treats animals worse. This would include farm animals, pets, fish, and animal research, among other things.

???

 

[das_nut]

I have to admit that outside of genociding people, seizing power, and invading a large chunk of Europe, I don't really know what Hitler stood for.

He could have been pro-environment, pro-national healthcare, pro-women's rights, pro-workplace emplowerment for all I know.

 

[FortyTwo]

Yeah, Nazi Germany, the culmination of good values...

...!?

But seriously thought, rainforests, do you mean that you stand for some of the general Nazi values, like really vague ones such as dedication and strength of intellect and importance of engineering and all that jazz? Because that's the only thing I can possibly construe from that.

 

[Music Platter]

I have to admit that outside of genociding people, seizing power, and invading a large chunk of Europe, I don't really know what Hitler stood for.

He could have been pro-environment, pro-national healthcare, pro-women's rights, pro-workplace emplowerment for all I know.

I think that Hitler might have been a vegetarian, and he liked his dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler_and_vegetarianism

I'm not defending him or anything... of course he did a lot of bad things.

 

[Mischief]

He liked his dogs enough to have his favorite one used to test whether the poison he intended to take would be strong enough and painless enough for him to want to use it himself. Of course, he cried about it afterwards, so I guess that shows he was a nice guy after all.

 

[rainforests1]

Yeah, Nazi Germany, the culmination of good values...

...!?

But seriously thought, rainforests, do you mean that you stand for some of the general Nazi values, like really vague ones such as dedication and strength of intellect and importance of engineering and all that jazz? Because that's the only thing I can possibly construe from that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_welfare_in_Nazi_Germany
Some of their animal welfare policies I agree with. A person can be a lunatic in most ways, but still have policies you agree with.

 

[rainforests1]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltobias/2012/11/02/animal-rights-in-china/
They give reasons for some of the horrible cruelty in China. I have never heard reasons given for America's cruelty. It seems like one day we just assumed Americans want cheap meat and went that route.