News The Michael Brown shooting

[Spang]

"But at the same time, it is as necessary for me to be as vigorous in condemning the conditions which cause persons to feel that they must engage in riotous activities as it is for me to condemn riots. I think America must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. Certain conditions continue to exist in our society which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard." --Martin Luther King

 

[yakherder]

Training or not, they're people. When presented with a perceived threat, the first thing the body does is shut off reason and logic and pump you full of adrenaline in preparation for a burst of energy to be utilized during an expected life or death struggle, at the end of which you're left exhausted. Do this multiple times in quick succession, and you're left with what is often referred to as combat fatigue.

Michael Brown went into that mode when he was initially confronted. Even though it was not for the robbery that he had committed that he was stopped, he didn't know that at the time and anticipated a confrontation when he saw a cop approaching.

Darren Wilson, the cop, went into survival mode when his eye socket was broken.

Many of the protestors, believing the police to be a bunch of trigger happy cowboys, have been in that mode for the last three days.

Many of the police, who believe the protestors to be looters and rioters, have been in that mode the last three days.

As with many other current situations, it's easier to judge when you haven't been there than it is to act rationally when you're in the muddle of it, but this all started with a robbery. The rest is cause/effect.

 

[rainforests1]

Everyone seems to be taking sides in this without any knowledge of what happened. I'll wait personally.

 

[yakherder]

That's part of the reason I waited a few days to toss in my opinion. We still don't know everything, but we know this kid wasn't innocent and we know the officer was hit hard enough to fracture his eye socket prior to discharging his weapon. Of course there should be a fair investigation, but from what I see, I don't believe for a second that this was a case of a cop shooting a black kid for no reason, and I doubt they'd be able to prove that this was the case to a rational jury. But like you said, everyone had taken a firm stance like 8 seconds after they heard about it. That's BS.

 

[Spang]

We know that from 2005 to 2012, white police officers, on average, killed unarmed Black people nearly twice a week, according to stats compiled by the U.S. Department of Justice.

[A]n unarmed African American died at the hands of an armed White police officer at the rate of nearly two per week from 2005 to 2012. Over that 8-year-period, 400 police killings were reported per year. White officers killed a Black person, on average, 96 times per year.

We also know that, according to a recent investigation, a Black person was, on average, killed every 28 hours by a police officer, security guard, or George Zimmerman-type in 2012.

In 2012, 313 Black people were executed without trial by police, security guards and self-appointed law enforcers.

 

[Spang]

Additionally, we know that if found guilty of punching a police officer in the face, one does not receive the death penalty. If found guilty of stealing cheap cigars from a convenience store, one is not given the death penalty. If found guilty of attempting to steal an officer's firearm, one is not given the death penalty. Whether or not Michael Brown did any of those things, we do know that Darren Wilson took it upon himself to be the judge, jury and executioner, robbing Michael of his life, and stripping him of his due process.

 

[Freesia]

I agree that we shouldnt jump to conclusions! Originally I thought that the police were overreacting, but having observed this event, I have seen all these thugs that the police have picked up and arrested this week, such as a 90 year old holocaust survivor, a female pastor who was praying and was shot in the stomach by a rubber bullet, and a young African american woman who was shot in the head by police and is now recovering in hospital.

If it wasnt for the militarily armed police, what would those terrifying people do? Also the police did a commendable thing which I saw- they raided a church which was keeping food, medical supplies and milk for the protesters. That church and it's congregation were really asking for it, keeping medical supplies like that.

 

[yakherder]

Hypothetical question. If someone punches you in the face hard enough to break your eye socket, what should you do?

Keep in mind that the immediate effect is going to be reduced overall vision and poor depth perception due to having only one properly functioning eye, as well as impaired judgement and tunnel vision due to the inevitable physiological effects.

This ain't the movies. You don't calmly place a round in their leg in the heat of a perceived life or death struggle. Most people, cops included, are just gonna start smashing, stabbing, or pulling the trigger frantically until the perceived threat is gone, the realization of which usually comes after the adrenaline rush wears off. That's why I don't find it at all strange when someone gets stabbed 50 times in self defense. The reaction is understood and well documented.

 

[Freesia]

 

[Freesia]

Im sorry Yakherder, but you are backing the wrong people.

 

[yakherder]

I'm backing the individual officer in his reaction. The "protests" are a different matter in which both sides have made many mistakes.

 

[yakherder]

Sorry if I seem callous, we all come from different walks of life. I've been dealing with violent people in some form or another for most of my adult life, and I have no sympathy for people like Brown. He's not the victim, he's the victimizer. He chose to live by the sword, so to speak, and that choice has unpredictable consequences. I feel sorry for his mom. I feel sorry for people in wheel chairs who get gassed. (generally speaking, I don't know the whole situation). But heck I used to get with my friends and we'd pepper spray each other just for fun to make our wrestling matches more interesting. I get gassed with various crowd control agents at least once or twice per year as a training aid. That's not to say it's okay when it's used unjustly, but I'm never going to be able to place that kind of thing at a higher level of importance than maintaining order in the face of rioting with unpredictable consequences. I think it's very unfortunate that they screwed up what could have been a peaceful protest, but cities have been leveled by rioting that got out of control.

Again, mistakes are being made all around, but this is not a case of all good or all evil. The police aren't there just to indiscriminately harass everyone, nor are they movie caliber superheroes. They have a job to do, and they have to do that job with the same social, psychological, and physical limitations that everyone else is subject to.

 

[Spang]

Hypothetical question. If someone punches you in the face hard enough to break your eye socket, what should you do?

I realize that this is a hypothetical, but it ignores the racialized history of Ferguson--decades of housing discrimination, white flight, intergenerational poverty and racial profiling.

Generations of racially mixed families have lived in Ferguson, some dating back more than a century, with ancestors among the slaves who were sold at auction houses on the Mississippi riverfront. Today, its residents comprise roughly two-thirds African Americans and one-third Caucasians. Race relations, often harmonious among neighbors, are frequently tense between black residents and the mostly Caucasian city officials.

 

[rainforests1]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/16/justice/maryland-young-girl-dies-gunbattle/
An incident like this happened around the same time. With all the tragedies that happen around the world, should the Brown case be getting this much attention?

 

[beancounter]

If Brown attacked him, the cop had every right to defend himself, but the cops there seem to have...issues.

I've hard two reports so far of a cop pointing an automatic rifle and threatening to kill a peaceful protester, and another one going on a racist rant, and threatening to kill anyone who gets in his way.

 

[Spang]

...should the Brown case be getting this much attention?

Without question.

 

[Spang]

Talib Kweli spent a couple of days in Ferguson. He and Rosa Clemente were interviewed by Democracy Now!.

You can read the transcript here.

"I think Ferguson is going to change the narrative of what a police brutality movement looks like and who’s going to end up leading this movement." --Rosa Clemente

 

[rainforests1]

'Crying for Justice': Thousands Mourn Michael Brown at Funeral - NBC News
4,500 attended his funeral, Sharpton, Jackson, and Spike Lee among them.

 

[rainforests1]

Authorities say Michael Brown’s blood found on gun, inside police car
Recent evidence supports Wilson's account.

 

[Spang]

The killer cop will not be indicted. Black lives matter, but not according to the grand jury.