The nature of evil - not an emotional discussion, purely intellectual

[Plant Muncher]

Plant Muncher, replace "affecting" with "affects", reread the whole post with an open mind a couple of times, and it will make sense. Let me try to paraphrase it. (My training is in experimental science, not philosophy, so I will probably mangle it, but I will probably also be easier to understand.) Since we're all part of the universe, everything one person does affects everyone else. What the major world religions call evil is not so different from what we see as evil in our society today: greed is tied to poverty; killing is tied to unnecessary wars; ending factory farming is tied to preserving the environment God gave us, etc. The ultimate evil is someone who refuses to recognize that s/he is a part of this universe -- i.e., someone who lacks empathy, referred to in psychology as a narcissist or a sociopath .

As someone who is skeptical of religion, I don't agree with some of this reasoning, but it's far from being nonsense. Forest Nymph is trying to define good and evil in terms of ancient religion and modern thought at the same time.

Finally, Plant Muncher, was there never a time in your twenties or thirties when you were absolutely passionate about something, to the point of radicalism? Let's be more understanding of our younger and more enthusiastic members.

Thank you poivron for the interpretation assistance. I appreciate you taking an interest in bridging this gulf of disagreement. Like I said, I see my lack of tolerance for this type of proselytizing or opinion-splaining by FN as my problem not hers. I should be much more tolerant than I am but even I get worn down sometimes. I guess I’ll have to work on myself a bit more to overcome this issue.


I think that I’ve already made a good case for good and evil being purely human constructs that aren’t even consistent across time or cultures much like religious belief systems. I think labeling things as “a sin” further muddies the waters of reason and rationality. It is just sad that not only do people adhere to such nonsense but then they go out and try and spread it.

I can’t say that I was ever that passionate about anything at least not to the point of radicalism or anarchy even when I was young. People in my age cohort that were that passionate and radical I generally took with a grain of salt. It has been my experience since then, these emotionally driven do-gooders all flamed out and accomplished next to nothing along the way. But your point is well taken and worth consideration. I should know enough to be more understanding of the youthful louder voices. After all, they will be running the country one day. Take care poivron.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Great! Parse this sentence out for us oh educated one.

"And within the spiritual truths of major world religions (and some not so major) the essential truth of our love or hate, our piety or sin, affecting the fabric of all other life on earth."

You absolutism is the source of your anger, not me or anything I've written.

No I'm not angry, I'm just annoyed that you literally wrote posts that are 2-3 sentences max, that say trite things like "there is no such thing as good and evil because of tribal people and their gods" like we're all just supposed to nod, smile and applaud your genius.

People aren't stupid because they have a different philosophy than you. There are Catholic Physicists. I don't see anything especially brilliant about anything you've said, it seems just as "unoriginal" as what I said (if not more so, because at least I took the trouble to explain and give examples).

So please, get over yourself.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Plant Muncher, replace "affecting" with "affects", reread the whole post with an open mind a couple of times, and it will make sense. Let me try to paraphrase it. (My training is in experimental science, not philosophy, so I will probably mangle it, but I will probably also be easier to understand.) Since we're all part of the universe, everything one person does affects everyone else. What the major world religions call evil is not so different from what we see as evil in our society today: greed is tied to poverty; killing is tied to unnecessary wars; ending factory farming is tied to preserving the environment God gave us, etc. The ultimate evil is someone who refuses to recognize that s/he is a part of this universe -- i.e., someone who lacks empathy, referred to in psychology as a narcissist or a sociopath .

As someone who is skeptical of religion, I don't agree with some of this reasoning, but it's far from being nonsense. Forest Nymph is trying to define good and evil in terms of ancient religion and modern thought at the same time.

Finally, Plant Muncher, was there never a time in your twenties or thirties when you were absolutely passionate about something, to the point of radicalism? Let's be more understanding of our younger and more enthusiastic members.

Thank you.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I don't agree with this. I don't believe it's selfishness or apathy or a lack of morality or religion that makes people eat animals but rather the desire to fit in and the fear of being shunned by one's peers for doing something they see as extreme. People are not as bad as you seem to think they are. That's a good thing because it means there is hope.

I do believe our Western culture is selfish and apathetic. That doesn't mean that every individual person is "bad" but that there's a pervasive evil in capitalist corporate culture that lead to tragedies like factory farming and deforestation. So I don't think that every person who eats meat does it because they're "evil" - far from it - but on a case by case basis. I think American culture is really one that actually promotes greed, selfishness and apathy in favor of shopping or amassing more things. Or being entertained. Do I know meat eaters who are good people? Of course.

But I do think post-modern secular humanism is very much to blame for an empty moral relativism, which combined with corporate capitalism, does perpetuate what I consider evil, en masse.