The tyranny of political correctness

[Hog]

Examples of Politically Incorrectness:

01. The act of aspiring to live a vegan lifestyle is politically incorrect. I remember thinking, "These vegans need to shut up and worry about human rights instead of animal rights." Everybody who participates in veganform.org is politically incorrect to some groups of people.
02. I would guess that hiding Jewish people in Nazi Germany was also politically incorrect. Still, a few "degenerate" Germans still hid them anyway.
03. I remember learning in a college class over thirty years ago that the following words were sexist: pen, pencil, hysterical, cockpit, test, he, and she.
04. Nowadays, the following words are also offensive these days: boss, woman, undocumented worker, and American.
05. I remember my boss saying, "Never say, 'autistic son.' Say 'son with autism.'" She stated that 'autistic son'" is extremely offensive to her. I carefully explained to her that many autistic people find the words "son with autism" very offensive. Nevertheless, she was convinced that she was right and I was wrong.

Examples of Political Correctness

01. Using the word "sucks."
02. Using the "n" word when you are around your hommies.
03. Men bashing.
04. A hunter killing an animal slowly to harvest more meat.
05. Degrading politicians in the other political party.

Thus, I ask myself: What is politically correct and who gets to decide?

 

[Hog]

@ Tofurobot - Thank you very much for your reply. I admire your tact.

I was threatened with disciplinary action for saying "illegal immigrants." I know that sounds hard to believe. But, it is true. Naturally, I apologized my rear end off for my insensitivity. Then I went home and thought "What the heck is going on?"

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I recall my dad coming home upset because some Mexican people made fun of him in Spanish. The guy looked white, acted white, and talked white. They did not have a clue that my dad was a native Spanish speaker. They also did not realize that my father thought of himself as being Mexican.

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I have lost track of the enlightened and educated teachers who use politically correct words, "person with autism." Yet, they still manage to emotionally abuse my son anyway.

I also remember a Mexican family who did not speak any English at all. The family looked like they were enjoying a picnic at the park. I never met them before in my life. They chased me away and encouraged my autistic son to join them. I thought that they were crazy because my son is a handful.

 

[Gaspard]

The act of aspiring to live a vegan lifestyle is politically incorrect.

Yea vegans could be politically incorrect. "Meat is murder", "Dairy is rape". And also, a very good and pertinent one : "animal holocaust".

 

[Andy_T]

The problem is that "normal" people with no ill intent get piled on by the PC crowd. Their ideological purity standards pretty much put them in cult territory.

Yes, but as I have tried to say, "normal" people learn if they are using a term that should not longer be used and don't use it again.

And then, there are others who will bristle at "being censored" and insist on their "right" to use the term and claim it is not offensive because they can't see what's wrong about it ...

 

[Andy_T]

Examples of Politically Incorrectness:

<snip>

Examples of Political Correctness

<snip>

Honestly, I do not understand a single item from that list you are posting.

None of them seem to make any sense to me, apart from that you certainly should never use the "n-word", whether you are with your "hommies" or not.

What do you want to say? Genuinely confused.

 

[Andy_T]

And also, a very good and pertinent one : "animal holocaust".

That is actually one of my favourite examples.

Regardless of how often some (I assume well-meaning) white activists get told that they should probably refrain from using the holocaust as comparison to animal agriculture, because

a) it is factually incorrect (farmers do not want to eradicate animals from the face of the earth, they "just" want to earn money),
b) most "normal" people would consider it quite offensive, and especially people who have lost family to the Nazi terror will likely consider it especially offensive,
c) there is quite a difference if a holocaust survivor himself uses this comparison than to average Joe using it (just compare that to an African American using the n-word as opposed to a white person using it),
and d) there are so many other good comparisons out there that are not offensive that could be used instead,
they will insist they have the right to use it and everybody who is offended is just an evil speciesist. Sigh.

No vegan in Germany would nowadays use that comparison, unless they are bona-fide racists (yes, we do have those).

But try to explain that to some white American vegans....

 

[shyvas]

So, if you say the "wrong" word you're an ***? Who decides what is the "wrong" word? How do people keep up with the ever changing and increasing list of wrong words? What about context and intent?

So true. This reminds me of when somebody told me that I had to vote for the 'right' candidate.

 

[Second Summer]

Political correctness in itself is a good thing - I think we should all make some efforts to avoid terms that cause offence. If we want to have a productive conversation, then everyone needs to be able to think rationally, and in order to do that we must remove distractions such as words that only cause offence, especially when alternative words exist that come without the 'baggage'.

I think what some over-eager proponents of political correctness seem to forget, is that the word 'racist' itself is exactly that kind of word, so if they make that accusation within an otherwise unrelated discussion, then that discussion is likely to go off the rails.

The point here is that if you get told a certain word should not be used, e.g. because it is considered a racial slur, then the majority of the population typically does not see a big issue with that and tries to avoid using that word in the future. There are, however a steadfast few who will argue that they don't really think it is a slur and insist on their right to use it.

Yes, but told by whom? Who really has the right to decide that a word shouldn't be used any more? This is obviously a difficult question to answer, but I ask because sometimes there are people who seem to get a bit carried away. Here's a sad example from a Youtube channel I follow:

History With Hilbert
201K subscribers
Basically someone wrote an article earlier today explaining why he thought the name of my course at Cambridge University, this being Anglo-Saxon, Norse and Celtic (ASNaC or ASNC for short) is racist and why it should be banned. Naturally I had to respond to this.

 

[Gaspard]

I think that concepts only might be politically incorrect. Words are just their ephemeral masques.

When I was a teen, some girls referred to their vagina as "minette" and they seemed to love it: it was cute, funny and sexy. And they said the term "chatte" was very vulgar. But as years passed, when they were about twenty years old, one of them said to me "minette is the most vulgar word that ever existed". So basically, the cutest of all words became the ugliest, just five or ten years later…
I think that neither “chatte” nor “minette” were vulgar per se. But the concept of vagina was considered vulgar. And in order to make it acceptable they had to change the word. So as their mothers said “chatte”, they chose “minette” instead. But years later, as the girls were still disturbed by the concept, the word “minette” became vulgar.

Something similar happened with heroine. In the nineties heroine had a very bad reputation. Heroine dealers were beaten up in prison. People called them sellers of death (marchands de mort), death dealers. So a new word was popularised ten years later “rabla”. Heroine was now called “rabla”. And so it became the coolest thing you could try (and people died because of this trend).

Basically when you change a word, you try to erase the concept. Many linguists think it is an efficient way to change society. Even Nietzsche reflected about that. But it seems clear to me that it doesn’t work that well. Sooner or later the concept comes back with all its power and political incorrectness.

 

[Hog]

@ Andy_T - Thank you for the feedback. I should be more clear with my examples.

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Definition of politically correct
: conforming to a belief that language and practices which could offend political sensibilities (as in matters of sex or race) should be eliminated

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I should clarify my earlier post. Everyone uses politically incorrect language without realizing it. I was horrified when I learned the history of the heart that we draw on Valentine's Day. I stopped drawing hearts for a few years because the heart seemed vulgar.

 

[PTree15]

Yes, but as I have tried to say, "normal" people learn if they are using a term that should not longer be used and don't use it again.

And then, there are others who will bristle at "being censored" and insist on their "right" to use the term and claim it is not offensive because they can't see what's wrong about it ...

This is what I don't understand. I think people seem incapable of even trying to put themselves in another's position. I understand that it's difficult to do if you haven't experienced discrimination. As a white woman, I know I have it so much better than people of color in the U.S., but over the years, words used to describe women (mostly by men) have left the language, thankfully. Women found them offensive because they came from a position of power and oppression, ownership, etc.

If I'm called out for using a term that offends someone, I consider it a learning experience, drop the word and move on. Some language, offensive or otherwise, is so embedded in culture that we don't even realize it could be offensive to someone.

 

[Hog]

At the risk of being very wrong, I fear that political correctness is more about suppressing opposing opinions than it is about protecting civil rights.

I am a one-woman kind of guy. Spreading my seed far and wide is not for me. Some people find my preferences "offensive." Unless, I want to risk public humiliation, I keep my trap shut. So I find nicer ways of saying things. I might say. "The only woman I ever kissed was my wife. And that was after we were engaged."

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By the way, I still like bitches. My wife said that she understands my desire for companionship beyond the marriage.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I was told off once for pointing out that there's a lot of racism in Mexico, and that my ex's dad's family was extremely prejudiced against Blacks, and this isn't uncommon in conservative Mexican families. I think the implication was that I was insulting Mexicans in some way by pointing out that they too are racist? There tends to be a camp that really doesn't comprehend that "whypepo" didn't create prejudice.

The things about "cultural traditions" and why they are allowed to eat meat and that veganism is a white thing is also really stupid.

Political correctness was originally developed so that people would be sensitive or mindful of minority groups or sexism, and it had good intentions. Now it's just become a joke, people use it in all sort of manipulative ways to uphold their own prejudices and ignorance and bad choices.

Racism and sexism or conversations about race and gender are now used as smokescreen by the center left to uphold institutions and systems that are actually very conservative and outdated. There is really very little difference between "moderate Republicans" and "moderate Democrats" except one uses Christian pro-life arguments, and the other uses race/gender arguments to obfuscate their real, main priorities which include (but are not limited to) wars in Asian countries, profiting from fossil fuel companies, subsidies to animal agriculture, not actually caring about climate change, not actually caring about homelessness or healthcare, not actually caring about immigrants and generally maintaining the status quo for the wealthy and upper middle class via corporate capitalism.

I can kinda understand why your son's math teacher was offended. I don't know what actually happened there, maybe she really can't teach math, but of course she's going to get upset you told her that she doesn't understand a class she teaches.

 

[Nekodaiden]

At the risk of being very wrong, I fear that political correctness is more about suppressing opposing opinions than it is about protecting civil rights.

<snip>

You are not wrong, that is exactly what it is mainly about.

At the risk of being presumptive, I think this thread may have at
least partially been inspired by the recently split/closed thread
where I aired my (asked for) opinion on another subject.

I hold a number of politically incorrect opinions on a variety of
subjects that I have taken the time to look into.

Collectivists who are worried about the collective image of the group
fear this.

My question is, why should it matter? Not one of us represents all, not in
this group, nor in other groups. We all need to be on board with the
theme of this message board, but we do not all need to hold collective
opinions on other matters. If we did, there would be no individuals here,
only tyrants enforcing whatever they think is the proper views that
vegans should have in presenting an image to the world.

 

[Forest Nymph]

The problem is that "normal" people with no ill intent get piled on by the PC crowd. Their ideological purity standards pretty much put them in cult territory.

Yeah, that's why I left my ill-begotten grad school program from last semester and am just taking electives now. I was constantly in a classroom with adults who were "calling out" or arguing with people who were either already allies to minorities or who were basically decent, normal people who are potential allies. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever witnessed, like being on Twitter, except in real life. Making someone cry during a presentation is childish, unprofessional and has no place in a college classroom. Generalizations about whites were also frequently tossed about, and some of my peers were even anti-science. It was a total circus. I thought conservative people were making this stuff up, but no.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Katrina Dent, a vegan metis mohawk denounced the way so called anti-racists used this "indigenous people though" argument. I would say it is racist to assume that indigenous people cannot be vegan.

Yeah I caught someone in this argument last semester in one of my classes. She started using the "indigenous people tho" argument against veganism, and I said well most indigenous people eat what everyone else eats now, so it's racially insensitive to say indigenous people probably shouldn't be eating at McDonald's? Then she starts huffing and puffing and talking about poverty and food deserts, and I just want to say I live in a town that doesn't have food deserts or inner city poverty.

I also had people interrupt my input and even one of my presentations basically saying I shouldn't be talking about animal rights when humans exist in the world who suffer. This of course from a middle class Middle Eastern woman who drank bottled water and ate bagged processed snacks in almost every weekly class meeting.

 

[Forest Nymph]

(One of my post on this forum was recently edited because "it might offend some younger viewers" LOL.)

Crazy that in America you cannot burn an American flag or put it upside down without being beaten up.
It's also strange that you cannot testify against the president's bad behaviours without being fired from your job and threatened.

Illma Gore's caricature of Trump micropenis was banned. How does that works with the first amendment? It seems that freedom of expression doesn't apply to everybody. Thousand of death threats were sent to the artist. Then Illma Gore was punched in the face.

Do you think that's OK?
(You realise, I’m sure, that I intentionally gave examples of right wing censorship… How do you feel about that?)

It's of no surprise to me that political correctness is so strong. Obviously most people have a puritan soul and a liberal façade.

Faux outrage is big here too. You know, people pretending to be extremely offended by very small mistakes. Or blowing up certain arguments into strawmen or red herrings, placing things where they don't even apply. Like this one lady in my class talking about Islamic cow smugglers getting murdered in India, where cows are sacred. She misrepresented it as "Muslims getting killed for eating beef" (actually only about 20 people had been murdered in about 10 years, which only averages about 2 people a year, and were all involved in smuggling, not just having a sandwich) and somehow tried to hysterically apply it me questioning the meat consumption of well fed students in our American classroom.

 

[Hog]

@ Forest Nymph
You said exactly what I was thinking. Unfortunately, my thoughts were too jumbled up to express what you said.

@ Nekodaiden
I doubt that you are fond of Hitler based on your previous posts. I respect your gutsy choice to post the video about Hitler. You are opening yourself up to a world of criticism. But, I think you already knew that.

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To my accusers,

I have been labeled a racist numerous times over the years. Maybe I am a racist. Maybe I am not a racist. I can tell you that I was scared s4!+less on the day I decided to marry my black wife from South Africa almost 30 years ago. I may be a racist. But, I am not a complete coward.

I have made numerous tough choices during my life. There are many days that I felt alone. Why were you so quiet on those days?

I realize that I am too much of a low life to recognize your glorious moral superiority. Maybe I will learn how to ethically eat meat one day. One day, I might even learn that you are the real environmentalist and the real animal lover.

Sincerely,

The Redneck Vegan

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NOTE TO SELF: When are you going to learn to shut up?

 

[Nekodaiden]

@ Nekodaiden
I doubt that you are fond of Hitler based on your previous posts. I respect your gutsy choice to post the video about Hitler. You are opening yourself up to a world of criticism. But, I think you already knew that.

Now that the video has been removed, people will wonder what I posted. So, it was basically Nazi Germany's position towards animal welfare during it's time. However because the video names the organization responsible for doing this, citing this historical fact is apparently not acceptable. There's a decent wikipedia article on it if anyone is interested.

 

[beancounter]

The problem with talking about Nazis and AR, is that it gives people an opportunity to associate veganism with Nazis. ( Which is obviously BS, but you know how people are...) As a community, the general public views us negatively as it is. Adding Nazis to the mix, just adds to that negativity.