Ukraine

If nuclear warheads bother you so much, why don't you criticize the United States(the first country to have them)? Some of us prefer an isolationist policy where people avoid confrontations where possible. The United States should stay out.

Is this really confusing you why someone in a thread about the Ukraine is pointing out the potential incentive to start/restart nuclear weapons buildups in various countries in the region, instead of talking about the US nuclear policy?
 
Could a civil war be avoided now? Real democracy will be applied and Western governments seem angry. Or is a civil war possibly being avoided the real reason why they're angry?
Is this really confusing you why someone in a thread about the Ukraine is pointing out the potential incentive to start/restart nuclear weapons buildups in various countries in the region, instead of talking about the US nuclear policy?
Obviously I wasn't referring to this thread only. I'm very, very strongly against nuclear weapons, and I apply it to all countries in the world, not just a few. If one country has nuclear war heads it's inevitable that other countries will try to acquire them as well. If you want to play the blame game you have to start at the beginning. If we had remained hunters and gatherers(which you're against) there'd be no nuclear weapons today. If all the powers had come to some agreement or history had gone differently it could have been avoided as well.
 
I'm very, very strongly against nuclear weapons, and I apply it to all countries in the world, not just a few. If one country has nuclear war heads it's inevitable that other countries will try to acquire them as well. If you want to play the blame game you have to start at the beginning.

If it's inevitable, what about the countries that voluntarily gave up nuclear weapons, such as Ukraine?

For someone who is "very, very strongly" against nuclear weapons, you don't seem very upset with the precedent that Russia's violation of the Budapest Memorandum has set. That's what has changed the rules now.

Before, countries have voluntarily given up nuclear weapons, and voluntarily ended nuclear weapons programs. South Africa, Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan have all rejected nuclear weapons that they had in their possession. Other states never built a weapon, or never tested it (which includes some countries most people wouldn't expect, such as Sweden).

There are countries under the US's protection that are probably at the nuclear threshold and do face threats. Considering that the US has shown it's toothlessness in regards to Ukraine, those countries may be rethinking their nuclear-free position.

So let's stop playing the game of "Oh the US first developed nuclear weapons, blah blah blah" and focus on the actions today. It's unlikely the great powers or the sole hyperpower will give up nuclear weapons. But we can act in a way that discourages proliferation.

If we had remained hunters and gatherers(which you're against) there'd be no nuclear weapons today. If all the powers had come to some agreement or history had gone differently it could have been avoided as well.

Oh goodie, we could have remained hunter and gatherers, and most of us wouldn't have survived until adulthood. Those who did, if male, would have a high chance of dying a violent death, while women's status would likely be worse off. But hey, at least we'd wouldn't have nukes.
 
It's inevitable that SOME countries would go nuclear after the United States made the decision to do it. This did happen. My complaint with Russia is that they have maybe 7,000 nuclear war heads, just like my complaint with the United States is that they have 5,000. There's no reason a country with a sane leader should have even a fraction of those. I don't see any other reason to complain about Russia as far as the nuclear issue goes. According to my father, Poland wants nuclear weapons to "protect" themselves from Russia. If true, this worries me a lot more than Russia violating a Memorandum.

Obviously there's far more problems than the nuclear one that agriculture has brought the world(factory farms, the oceans being depleted, etc. etc. etc.). We've already had this discussion before so there's no need to bring it up again.
 
It's inevitable that SOME countries would go nuclear after the United States made the decision to do it. This did happen. My complaint with Russia is that they have maybe 7,000 nuclear war heads, just like my complaint with the United States is that they have 5,000. There's no reason a country with a sane leader should have even a fraction of those. I don't see any other reason to complain about Russia as far as the nuclear issue goes. According to my father, Poland wants nuclear weapons to "protect" themselves from Russia. If true, this worries me a lot more than Russia violating a Memorandum.

1939: The Soviet Union invades Poland, under the excuse of protecting the Ukrainians and Belarusians who live there. The resulting invasion included the greatest mass murder by a sole individual - a Soviet executioner who was responsible for killing thousands.
2014: Russia invades Ukraine, under the excuse of protecting the Russians who live there.

Damned if I know why Poland would be nervous.
 
I can see why Poland could be worried, but they're in a much safer position than Ukraine since they're a member state of both NATO and the EU. Ukraine has been under the influence of Russia until now, and was a part of the Russian-dominated USSR before that.
 
Russia would be risking war if they invaded Poland. What benefit would it provide Russia?

They were risking war by invading Ukraine, and now risk having a rump state that will be pro-EU on their borders.

Russia also put missiles on the Polish border back in 2013...

Russia ain't acting that sane lately.
 
There was an article in the paper today that says Germany gets more than 30% of its natural gas from Russia, and Finland gets all of its natural gas from Russia. With this in mind, is getting tough with Russia the right thing to do?
 
There was an article in the paper today that says Germany gets more than 30% of its natural gas from Russia, and Finland gets all of its natural gas from Russia. With this in mind, is getting tough with Russia the right thing to do?

I agree, we shouldn't make too much of a fuss over the Anschluss. We wouldn't want to upset European economic stability.
 
The world reminds me of a bunch of chihuahuas. Once you realize their yapping is just a bluff, all you have to do is kick them aside and proceed to do whatever you want without fear of reprisal. It was the same BS in Syria. People have grown complacent in the comfort of their 1st world bubbles. To put it simply, if we're not willing to engage in violence then we need to stop making demands, keeping in mind that whoever steps in to fill the vacuum will, in the near future, be the one making threats against us instead. If, when that time comes, we lack leverage against them, we can forget about anything resembling freedom, democracy, economic stability, and all the other cliche terms we like to believe are our rights, rather than the end result of 10,000 years of perpetual conflict in an effort to secure the privilege (not the right) of survival.

If Russia decides not to give a damn about the threat of sanctions, not only have we got nothing else on the table, but we also succeed in forcing them into an alliance of necessity with our adversaries just like we've been doing with North Korea.

I realize my opinions probably aren't popular, but I try not to let wishful thinking determine my perception. The concept of world peace is about as scientifically valid as the concept of heaven. This isn't the way i want it to be, it's the way history and human nature within the context of civilization have shown it to be.

People can get all depressed over this if they want. I'll just assume I'm going to end up dead in a ditch in some random third world country some day and do my best to A: prepare for that possibility, B: try to maintain that bubble of security back home and C: enjoy myself in the interim.

Sorry for being nuts, have a nice day :p
 
If Russia pulls this off, I don't see why they won't do it again.

After all, they'd have gotten away with it twice.

Although right now, the situation looks ripe for a shooting war to start. And that's going to result in things going straight to hell.
 
Feck me sideways, this is still going on. History repeating itself. A German-dominated European Empire creates a puppet government in Ukraine, with no democratic mandate and the Russians draw a line in the sand against the further eastward expansion of that empire.
 
Oh goody. It continues to be the fault of those damn Germans.

Well, Germany is the major power in the EU which has now evolved into Mitteleuropa, what Chancellor Bethman Hollweg wanted back in 1915:

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/glossary/g/Mitteleuropa.htm

Read David Stevenson's veritable tome 1914 - 1918, The History of the First World War, for more information about this.

http://www.historytoday.com/malcolm-brown/1914-1918-history-first-world-war

Germany's political and economic elite have always wanted the territories to the east as sources of raw materials and cheap labour. Once again they have now baited the Russian bear and once again they will pay the price, economically this time, when Russia cuts off the gas supplies. Bear in mind also that the Germans have been stupid enough to close their nuclear power stations so they are even more dependent on gas imports than they should be.

Oh and if you don't think that this is history repeating itself, look where Volgograd (Stalingrad) is and ask yourself why the Third Reich wanted all that territory, which includes all of Ukraine, up to there. Germany, via the EU, is trying to reassert its dominance, economically, right into Russia's sphere of influence, as it has twice done militarily. Frau Merkel and her colleagues are playing a dangerous game.
 
Hey, it isn't like Russia invaded Poland in 1939 or anything, right?
And Finland (who surprisingly managed to keep the Soviets at bay while inflicting serious Red Army losses - perhaps as many as one million, but had to cede parts of their territory). And in 1940 the Red Army invaded Estland, Latvia and Lithuania, and parts of Romania as well.