Vegan friends won't accept newly turned vegan girlfriend

[David3]

I always thought that I was always right and what I knew was best etc.

.
If you are interested in learning about compromise-in-decisions, it might be better if you date someone who has actual experience in making her own life choices, rather than dating an 18 year old kid.
.

 

[maxvegan1988]

If you are interested in learning about compromise-in-decisions, it might be better if you date someone who has actual experience in making her own life choices, rather than dating an 18 year old kid.
.

I have to disagree here. I have dated women younger, similar aged and older and every relationship has been different regarding making compromises, life experience etc. I've dated women who are as equally militantly vegan yet we clashed as well. I don't think we can be too calculated when it comes to matters of the heart. If people make a connection it's as simple as that. Age, ethnicity, background, religion etc doesn't matter to me as long as the person has good morals and is vegan or at least open to becoming.

 

[silva]

It seems pretty natural to me to explore the things a new date talks about on your own, without provocation.
You don't mention anything about her friends or her making requests?
I've never felt it was so important to have all the same interests and opinions as much as it is to be able to respect each others interests and opinions. Unless friends have a legitimate reason to feel she's bad for you they should have no opinion

 

[David3]

I have to disagree here. I have dated women younger, similar aged and older and every relationship has been different regarding making compromises, life experience etc. I've dated women who are as equally militantly vegan yet we clashed as well. I don't think we can be too calculated when it comes to matters of the heart. If people make a connection it's as simple as that. Age, ethnicity, background, religion etc doesn't matter to me as long as the person has good morals and is vegan or at least open to becoming.

.
Of course - from your point of view, and considering yourself only, you see no issue in dating a girl who is barely old enough to date you. You've chosen a relationship in which you have considerable power, with a girl whose fundamental beliefs are a virtually a topic of scorn to you. The whole situation is grossly unequal.

I know I won't talk you out of this. At the very least, then (1) don't get her arrested at one of your more boisterous protests, (2) don't get her pregnant, and (3) don't smoke your f*cking cigarettes around her.
.

 

[vegan89]

I've never seen Dominion. I tried to watch Earthlings, twice, cause everyone said I should. Never could get past chapter 2. I'm already vegan. I don't need brutal awful reminders.

You're already vegan... but would you be a vegan at a greater level of intensity if you watched Dominion? Would you feel motivated to a greater level of activism or something?

If you need further reinfocement why not watch something beautiful or educational or just plain well done. How 'bout A Life On Our Planet

Isn't that about the environment though? How does that address the issue of animal suffering?

IMHO, A better way to stay vegan is to stay on the positive side.

I like stuff that promotes veganism from a positive perspective, and I would agree there isn't enough of that. But that also does nothing to educate people about the realities of animal suffering.

And until people are educated on that, the people who would otherwise care about the issue and feel motivated to take action will not have the motivation required to do so.

She said she wouldn't be able to cope. She should be believed and should not be made to do anything that makes her feel uncomfortable.

Very few people look at videos of animal suffering and say "Yeah I'm comfortable with this." But that's exactly the point of watching stuff like Dominion... the point of the video is to make people feel uncomfortable with the current situation so that people will feel motivated to change the world and stop the suffering.

I have not watched Dominion either and I have no intention of doing so [...] I also have no interest in activism and am thankful for those that do.

No interest in activism... and didn't watch Dominion. Not surprising.

Another reason for people to encourage others to watch stuff like Dominion...

 

[maxvegan1988]

.
Of course - from your point of view, and considering yourself only, you see no issue in dating a girl who is barely old enough to date you. You've chosen a relationship in which you have considerable power, with a girl whose fundamental beliefs are a virtually a topic of scorn to you. The whole situation is grossly unequal.

I know I won't talk you out of this. At the very least, then (1) don't get her arrested at one of your more boisterous protests, (2) don't get her pregnant, and (3) don't smoke your f*cking cigarettes around her.
.

I think you are making huge assumptions here. Firstly she is an adult who is capable to make up her own mind about who she wants to date. Although the attraction was there, I was apprehensive in the beginning due to the age difference and we started off as friends, and that's when she made the first move by the way. Secondly, you're making the assumption that all activists break the law. I never have and never will. The vigils I attend are legal as are the protests. Also if you read my original post and some replies to others you would've noticed that she doesn't come to vigils or protests and I won't ask her to either. Yes I speak to people about veganism trying to change their minds but that isn't against the law either. We live in an equal society and prevention of STDs as well as unwanted pregnancies is the responsibility of two people involved in the relationship not just down to the guy. She is legally an adult and by suggesting that I don't get her pregnant sounds so very patronising to grown adult women, implying they are passive participants in a relationship with no knowledge of how to prevent pregnancies. Thirdly, you assume smokers are inconsiderate to others. I may be a smoker but I do have the manners and decency not to smoke around non smokers, especially those I care about.
Please, I didn't come here to be character assassinated when I just put up an honest post seeking some advice.

 

[David3]

I think you are making huge assumptions here. Firstly she is an adult who is capable to make up her own mind about who she wants to date. Although the attraction was there, I was apprehensive in the beginning due to the age difference and we started off as friends, and that's when she made the first move by the way. Secondly, you're making the assumption that all activists break the law. I never have and never will. The vigils I attend are legal as are the protests. Also if you read my original post and some replies to others you would've noticed that she doesn't come to vigils or protests and I won't ask her to either. Yes I speak to people about veganism trying to change their minds but that isn't against the law either. We live in an equal society and prevention of STDs as well as unwanted pregnancies is the responsibility of two people involved in the relationship not just down to the guy. She is legally an adult and by suggesting that I don't get her pregnant sounds so very patronising to grown adult women, implying they are passive participants in a relationship with no knowledge of how to prevent pregnancies. Thirdly, you assume smokers are inconsiderate to others. I may be a smoker but I do have the manners and decency not to smoke around non smokers, especially those I care about.
Please, I didn't come here to be character assassinated when I just put up an honest post seeking some advice.

.
Whether you realize it or not, I'm doing you a favor: I'm showing you the point of view of this girl's parents.

In the eyes of her parents, an 18 year old girl is still a child. I'm glad to hear that you are responsible regarding pregnancy, smoking etc., because this girl's parents will go ballistic if she ends up pregnant or at the police station. Right or wrong, they will blame you.

 

[maxvegan1988]

.
Whether you realize it or not, I'm doing you a favor: I'm showing you the point of view of this girl's parents.

In the eyes of her parents, an 18 year old girl is still a child. I'm glad to hear that you are responsible regarding pregnancy, smoking etc., because this girl's parents will go ballistic if she ends up pregnant or at the police station. Right or wrong, they will blame you.

Well thanks for your concern but I'm fine thanks.
Yet again you make assumptions. You assume that she has parents around and if she does then she has a relationship with them. What's not to say if she did have parents around, they haven't already met me? It's possible they like and trust me. You really make me sound like the boyfriend from hell . I do smoke, take part in activism, have tattoos but I also have a full time, conventional and successful career and am financially stable and responsible. I know many squeaky clean looking guys who would say anything, lie through their teeth to manipulate a girl. By the way I 'manipulated' her to become a vegan. I guess I'm terrible for that too. I'm honest, a little brash and wear my heart on my sleeve. If it makes people wary of me or make prejudgments then that's their problem. At least I'm not a hypocrite!
And just for the record my girlfriend doesn't have parents around. She grew up without a father and her mother sadly passed away of cancer two years ago. So yes she has had to grow up a lot faster than most people her age. Still I'm aware of her age and feel extra protective of her due to her circumstances, even though I don't like patronising people due to their gender, age etc.

 

[Lou]

You're already vegan... but would you be a vegan at a greater level of intensity if you watched Dominion? Would you feel motivated to a greater level of activism or something?

Probably not. I tried to watch Earthlings and it just made me sad. Now if I wasn't vegan already I might see your point of view. but right now I don't think so.

I would rather watch a documentary that informs without graphic violence. or one that celebrates life instead of focusing in on violence and death.

Isn't that about the environment though? How does that address the issue of animal suffering?

it comes to the same conclusion but from a different direction. instead of the horror of animal based agriculture you get to enjoy the beauty of life on Earth.

I like stuff that promotes veganism from a positive perspective, and I would agree there isn't enough of that. But that also does nothing to educate people about the realities of animal suffering.

I don't need my nose shoved into a pile of manure to know it smells bad.

And until people are educated on that, the people who would otherwise care about the issue and feel motivated to take action will not have the motivation required to do so.

I'm already educated and already motivated so I think other people could also become motivated and educated without being subjected to violence.

 

[maxvegan1988]

Probably not. I tried to watch Earthlings and it just made me sad. Now if I wasn't vegan already I might see your point of view. but right now I don't think so.

I would rather watch a documentary that informs without graphic violence. or one that celebrates life instead of focusing in on violence and death.


it comes to the same conclusion but from a different direction. instead of the horror of animal based agriculture you get to enjoy the beauty of life on Earth.


I don't need my nose shoved into a pile of manure to know it smells bad.


I'm already educated and already motivated so I think other people could also become motivated and educated without being subjected to violence.

I agree with Lou that watching graphic content isn't for everyone and other doc films focussing more on the health or environment also reach the same goal of getting people to go vegan but at the same time I do really feel most people, vegans and non vegans should try and watch the docs that focus on veganism from an ethical perspective, exposing the animal suffering caused by meat/dairy production etc. I always recommend everyone I meet, to watch Dominion in order to make a connection between what they eat and the suffering that went into it. The reason most people are against animal abuse yet continue to consume meat/dairy is because they never had that connection in the first place. Today veganism has become 'trendy' and popular which isn't a bad thing but it seems many people are doing it for superficial reasons which make them go vegan but aren't strong enough reasons for them to stay vegan. Many new vegans I've spoken to say that whenever they have had a fleeting moment of weakness, they remember watching Dominion, Earthlings and similar films and these help them stay vegan.

 

[vegan89]

I'm already educated

There's a big difference between knowing in some abstract sense that "animal cruelty" is going on in factory farms and slaughterhouses... and seeing it for yourself and learning what that really means in practice.

It's a bit like how students in college say there's a difference between working through a mathematical problem on paper vs going into an engineering lab and putting the same ideas from that problem to work in the real world with your hands. "Experiential knowledge/learning," I think they call it.

When a person with empathy sees it being done to the animal, it becomes "real" to them in a certain sense, and they feel empathy for the animal that is suffering that they didn't feel in the same way before. It causes an emotional reaction that changes how they view the issue that would probably not happen if they read about the animal slaughter process in a newspaper article.

 

[Mufflon]

You have really weird friends. They give the impression of not liking human animals that much.

The problem with people who are unwilling to watch something like Dominion is I often find that they are exactly the sort of person who will become backsliders in the future, reverting to their animal-product consuming ways when they are confronted with a craving for animal foods or are put into a social situation where it is difficult to stay vegan. Even if that isn't true in this case, watching Dominion would help strengthen her commitment to veganism substantially.

Are you one of these friends OP is referring to by any chance?

These are kind of ludicrous assumptions.

 

[Mufflon]

This thread is so damn cliche-ridden when it comes to vegans and veganism it almost hurts physically.

Veganism becoming mainstream? I don't think so. As long as some vegans act like they're members of some kind of elitist exclusive club this won't happen. It drives non-vegan people away. Heck, when looking at this thread it leads to even people who're vegan since years feeling appalled!

 

[David3]

The problem with people who are unwilling to watch something like Dominion is I often find that they are exactly the sort of person who will become backsliders in the future, reverting to their animal-product consuming ways when they are confronted with a craving for animal foods or are put into a social situation where it is difficult to stay vegan.

.
Never watched Dominion. I've been vegan for 30 years.
.

 

[vegan89]

.
Never watched Dominion. I've been vegan for 30 years.
.

For every story someone gives me like that, I know several people IRL who are the type of people who dislike animal cruelty, and refuse to watch videos of animal cruelty on factory farms & slaughterhouses (because it bothers them), and yet they continue to eat animal products because they enjoy them.

The people who are most uncomfortable with something like Dominion are also probably the same types of people who would be most motivated to change the world after they see it.

 

[Lou]

There's a big difference between knowing in some abstract sense that "animal cruelty" is going on in factory farms and slaughterhouses... and seeing it for yourself and learning what that really means in practice.

um. I'm not buying that. There are all kinds of things that I haven't experienced but I know. Maybe thru testimonials.

Looking back on your and the VFers comments I think we are all being influenced by what is sometimes called the echo chamber. When you and the people you listen to all agree on something you repeat is to often you are sure it is true. and that it is the only perspective that fits your shared reality.

Its not necessary a bad thing. Well today the best example of it is the Big Lie. but it also operates in more beneficial ways. Shared societal norms are reinforced in the chamber.

You and your friends all feel the same way about veganism. You've probably been influencing and reinforcing each other for years. So I'm glad you dropped by. VFers do the same thing. We could probably all learn something from each other.

 

[maxvegan1988]

I agree with Vegan89 (and no Mufflon we are not friends ). There's a big difference between knowing abuse happens and seeing it for yourself to make that connection. Anyhow Lou and David, I appreciate that you both haven't seen Dominion, yet you've been vegans for many years however I do think that in more recent times and amongst younger people many become vegan (due to celebrity influences, media, health, Veganuary etc) all too easily without any serious thought or commitment to the cause. While these are great ways to come in to veganism, sadly they don't offer strong enough reasons to stay vegan. People need to be educated into why they must stop consuming animals for food and the horrific suffering that goes into it if they are to become and stay vegan. Since most people can't see inside a slaughterhouse in real then Dominion is the best educational resource there is out there.

 

[LoreD]

I’ve been vegan for 7 years now and I’d say I’m fairly hardcore and vocal with my views often accused of making non vegans feel intimidated. I’m 100% ethical vegan, for the animals and I spend a fair amount of time in activism work, going to vigils, protests etc. Over the last few months I have been dating someone whom I never thought I’d feel attracted to. Firstly she wasn’t a vegan to start with, is 16 years younger, into spirituality, yoga, health etc (things that make me cringe). She’s charming, lovely and beautiful as opposed to my cynical, miserable and uncouth self. At first I felt annoyed at myself for falling for her charms but she did become vegan and she brings out my more sensitive side when dealing with others. The problem is that most of my friends don’t like her. They think she has the potential to be a distraction to my activism work. They look down on her and subtly mock her when she is always sweet to them, cooking for everyone, before, after activism events, social gatherings etc. Another reason they don’t accept her is because she refuses to come to vigils as she says she won’t be able to cope and because she refuses to watch Dominion etc for the same reason. She is a passionate cook and has started a blog and YouTube channel encouraging people to adopt a plant based diet for ethical, health and environmental reasons. She believes this is her way of doing her bit for the cause. I just feel so frustrated that every time we are in the company of my friends or fellow vegans I associate with, there is a lot of animosity and bad feelings. I hate to admit it but she does make me happier and helps me feel less angry with the world, which I think is better for my activism work. I’d hate to lose her but I’m worried that other people are trying to do just that. I feel bad when she gets upset but in all honesty I would like her to occasionally attend vigils with me. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

You don't have very nice friends. I think you need to look around for more accepting people.

I have a real problem watching the rather gory documentaries. I know what is happening at the slaughterhouses and factory farms, but I just can't watch it.

Back in the 80's, when I started donating to PETA, I couldn't look at their magazine. I didn't use any animal products, ate completely plant based, but I couldn't look at the suffering.

Respect the changes your girlfriend has made, and get rid of the mean friends.

 

[Brian W]

There's a big difference between knowing in some abstract sense that "animal cruelty" is going on in factory farms and slaughterhouses... and seeing it for yourself and learning what that really means in practice.

It makes

There's a big difference between knowing abuse happens and seeing it for yourself to make that connection.

Maybe with you but we are not all the same. When I was struggling to be vegetarian I saw videos like that and they convinced me to try again. I managed for a month or two then went back to meat eating. It doesn't matter how compassionate you are, if you are addicted to something, you have a sod of a time trying to stop doing it. I did just as well before I watched those videos as I did afterwards; they made no difference at all other than to make me feel really bad for days afterwards. My weakness was trying too hard on a moral basis to do something I wasn't enjoying. Once I learned to enjoy making and eating plant based meals day by day, giving up animal produce became a lot easier and far more sustainable. I would never in a million years recommend forcing people to watch such videos. It is neither a good thing or a helpful thing to put people through it.

 

[maxvegan1988]

It makes

Maybe with you but we are not all the same. When I was struggling to be vegetarian I saw videos like that and they convinced me to try again. I managed for a month or two then went back to meat eating. It doesn't matter how compassionate you are, if you are addicted to something, you have a sod of a time trying to stop doing it. I did just as well before I watched those videos as I did afterwards; they made no difference at all other than to make me feel really bad for days afterwards. My weakness was trying too hard on a moral basis to do something I wasn't enjoying. Once I learned to enjoy making and eating plant based meals day by day, giving up animal produce became a lot easier and far more sustainable. I would never in a million years recommend forcing people to watch such videos. It is neither a good thing or a helpful thing to put people through it.

You make some good points Brian. I admit that I do try to convince people to watch educational videos showing the reality of animal suffering, but I don't force them. If I was forcing them, I'd be tying them up and literally making them watch with a gun to their head, I'm not doing that so... I've also said that I'm not going to ask my girlfriend again to watch Dominion (even though I think she should).