Vegan mom arrested for neglecting newborn

[RascalsMom]

She had limited visitation during those months. (1-2 times a week is what I read.)

 

[KLS52]

My daughter is 39 and she was on soy formula for the first six months after she was born because she did not tolerate the dairy formula. I didn't even know what vegan was back then. I was one of those moms who tried breast feeding but it didn't work well for me. I managed a few weeks with each of my three kids but then switched to formula.

 

[Amy SF]

Unless the non-human milk was specifically made for infants, a newborn could easily dehydrate or starve to death. So if she just bought some Silk almond milk and gave that to the infant, she would think she was feeding the baby just fine.

I agree the that the media loves to pounce on vegans. And Floridians, so a vegan Floridian being so stupid as to starve her newborn is media gold!

Re: Silk plant milk. Doesn't it say on all the boxes "Not an infant formula"

 

[flyingsnail]

Breast milk is not really an animal product per se. It is the mammal's way to nourish her newborn between the birth and the ability of the baby to fully digest other foods.

Just because newborns depend on breast milk doesn't mean its not an animal product, it is, and if you define a vegan product as one that isn't derived from animals than breast milk isn't a vegan product. If one doesn't like the consequence of this....change the definition.

All those months, infant and mother separated? Unbelievable. And soy infant formula is not rare or only used by vegans. Many infants are cow milk lactose intolerant and drink soy formula just fine. No one calls it "vegan formula". :rolls eyes:

Soy formulas, at least the ones I've seen, aren't vegan. They at the very least contain D3 and some of the other nutrients are likely animal derived as well. Does someone manufacture a vegan formula?

 

[flyingsnail]

The story resonates with me because we were afraid we'd end up in a similar situation when our daughter was a newborn. Initially, she had trouble feeding, and the hospital insisted we should feed her dairy formula, despite there being a perfectly fine soya-based formula available.

The American Academy of Pediatrics only recommends soy formula in cases of medical need, that is, in cases where the infant cannot consume milk-based formula so some doctors will get nasty about soy when there is no medical need. To them you are putting the child at unnecessary risk. I assume recommendations are similar in the UK.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Just because newborns depend on breast milk doesn't mean its not an animal product, it is, and if you define a vegan product as one that isn't derived from animals than breast milk isn't a vegan product. If one doesn't like the consequence of this....change the definition.

One's own saliva is an animal product, so I guess it is impossible to be vegan.

 

[flyingsnail]

One's own saliva is an animal product, so I guess it is impossible to be vegan.

I would, in a sense, agree with this conclusion.....but there is no way to avoid your own saliva.

 

[Blobbenstein]

but there is no way to avoid your own saliva

has a baby got the choice as to whether it has breast milk or not, or some substitute?

 

[flyingsnail]

has a baby got the choice as to whether it has breast milk or not, or some substitute?

The parent would have the choice.

 

[Blobbenstein]

The parent would have the choice.

but if breast milk is best, for immunity reasons, nutrition etc, what choice is there?

 

[flyingsnail]

but if breast milk is best, for immunity reasons, nutrition etc, what choice is there?

Firstly....I'm not suggesting that mothers should avoid breast feeding but rather that, by definition, breast milk isn't vegan. But, in terms of choice, there is no caveat in the definition of vegan that allows animal products if there is a demonstrated benefit from using them.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Firstly....I'm not suggesting that mothers should avoid breast feeding but rather that, by definition, breast milk isn't vegan. But, in terms of choice, there is no caveat in the definition of vegan that allows animal products if there is a demonstrated benefit from using them.

I know you don't quite accept the Vegan Society definition of veganism, but...

"...a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

Is it practicable to avoid feeding breast milk to babies, without detriment to the baby?
Wouldn't it be cruel to the baby itself to deny it breast milk, so feeding breast milk to babies would be MORE vegan than denying it milk.

 

[Blobbenstein]

for the baby to be, or not be vegan, I think it would have to be able to understand the definition, and concepts behind veganism, in order for it to make a choice. You could feed a baby cocaine, but does that make it a drug user? You could plonk it in front of the Fox News channel, but would that make it a Fox News viewer..?

I'm not really making good examples, but I just intuitively feel that when a baby consumes its mothers breast milk, it doesn't make the baby, or the mother, non-vegan.

 

[Clueless Git]

I just intuitively feel that when a baby consumes its mothers breast milk, it doesn't make the baby, or the mother, non-vegan.

This is probably because your IQ rating is a larger number than your shoe size.

Be gentle good Sir. Not everyone is blessed with that highly privileged condition.

 

[ledboots]

I know you don't quite accept the Vegan Society definition of veganism, but...

"...a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

Is it practicable to avoid feeding breast milk to babies, without detriment to the baby?
Wouldn't it be cruel to the baby itself to deny it breast milk, so feeding breast milk to babies would be MORE vegan than denying it milk.

This, exactly. Humans are mammals which by definition suckle their young.

 

[flyingsnail]

I know you don't quite accept the Vegan Society definition of veganism, but..
"...a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

That is the definition of veganism not "vegan product"....but:

Is it practicable to avoid feeding breast milk to babies, without detriment to the baby?

The definition you just cited has no caveat for when an animal product may benefit you it merely says that "as far as possible and practicable" and it is both possible and practicable to avoid human breast milk. So the issue would be whether breast feeding is "exploitative", to address this one would have to clearly define what it means for one animal to exploit another. I don't think breast feeding your young is, by any means, an exploitative relationship.....but I also don't think eating the eggs of your pet hens is either and the latter is not vegan.

Anyhow, I'm mostly just poking fun at the definition of vegan. It is, I think, nonsensical and one shouldn't be surprised that people get confused about breast milk when you define vegan products as those that don't have animal derived ingredients. But who knows why this mother wasn't breast feeding.

 

[Blobbenstein]

That is the definition of veganism not "vegan product"....but:

but if an activity doesn't go against the vegan ethos, then the product/s involved could be described as vegan.


A mother breastfeeding her offspring is kind of an exception to the definition of a 'vegan product', don't you think?

You are really just being pedantic...

 

[Danielle]

Breast milk is meant for babies. There is no exploitation going on. That's the whole point of being vegan.
Giving your baby breast milk is not making an exception because it is 100% vegan
And yes, semen is vegan

 

[Bite Size Vegan]

Infancy is a bit of a vegan dichotomy ...

It's the one period in life that we are geared up to consume an animal product.

well...our own animal product...so not sure it counts.