Veganism and digestive problems

[Pickle Juice]

The smoothie sounds good. I'll have to check out getting a blender.

Oh, I can get miso paste here! Sorry for the confusion. They have practically an entire aisle in my supermarket with all kinds of varieties. I wonder how long they last - the tubs are pretty big.

I meant the prepared kind that comes with a package of seasonings and little dried veggies that get restored when you add the hot water, like you would get in a restaurant as a side-dish with your meal. I would like to find those packages of little veggies and dried tofu bits and whatever, but without the powdered fish.

doug

Oh ok. You might have to improvise some there. I can get jars of dried minced veggies in the spice section of the local grocery store. My favorite miso soup has minced garlic, soy sauce, gomasio, and a spoonful of peanut butter. I don't know if the peanut butter would be too much fat for you though.

 

[Doug]

Peanut butter in miso soup! I can't imagine.

Anyway, that's ok with my doctor, but on my more restrictive Ornish program I'm not supposed to have any nuts or nut butters because of the high fat content.

I can always try improvising. I'm not "handy" around a kitchen really. I recently cooked a potato for the first time in my life.

doug

 

[Digger]

Supplementing with protein powder might not be such a bad idea then.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing... since Doug is cutting calories to lose weight he may need to consider supplemental protein.

 

[Doug]

I'll check out protein powder today also. Without legumes, even with some tofu, it seems hard to get to 56 gm, which is what is recommended at the US gov't site I looked at.

I've had breakfast and lunch and so far have just had 26 gm of protein. Well, I suppose that's not horrible. Not as bad as I thought. And there is still dinner.

doug

 

[thefadedone]

Hi, MLP. Your signature is, even as we speak, making the rounds amongst my friends.

There are probably some online sources for getting whole wheat pasta. I'm pretty much out of luck as far as whole wheat bread goes, unless I regularly want to travel more than an hour one-way to one shop I know which may have it. (My freezer is pretty small, so I can't stock up that way.)

Thanks,

doug

I was going to suggest making your own whole wheat bread.

 

[thefadedone]

Until I read this:

I'm not "handy" around a kitchen really. I recently cooked a potato for the first time in my life.

doug

 

[Doug]

Yes, well, that's true. A few years ago I had to look up on the Internet how to boil an egg. I found a 15 page scientific explanation with equations and graphs.

I did notice that they sell packages of whole wheat flour at my supermarket. If there is something simple I could experiment with (pita?) it might be fun to try.

 

[Forster]

I am having good luck on the Dean Ornish Spectrum (with heart disease reversal) program since I got out of the hospital. The diet is essentially vegan + no added oils + no nuts + no seeds. I've lost a lot of weight. And my energy levels are fine. Overall I feel very good.
My only remaining issue (and I thought I had this licked) are digestive problems. I don't like going into all the gory details, but basically the problems impact on my ability to go out to meetings and generally having a more active, comfortable life. I feel I need to be near a bathroom all the time, which is not something I experienced before.
Recently I eliminated legumes, which I think were a big part of the problem. But I still have the problem enough to bother me. Now I'm thinking I'm eating too many vegetables. Or just too much fiber in general.
Yes, yes. I know that fiber is "good for you" but maybe I need to cut back more and introduce fiber more slowly. It's been several weeks now, and my body doesn't seem to be adjusting to this aspect. I've tried all the solutions I've read about like drinking lots of waters, eating more rice, trying bananas, etc. But so far it hasn't helped. So I'm thinking of cutting back some more on the vegetables.
But if I cut back to mostly rice, noodles and tofu, I'm worried about whether I'm getting all the essential proteins I need. I know that legumes really help with the protein part of it, but… they are a bit too much right now, digestively speaking. Delicious though.
Could I just make up needed proteins with supplements? Anybody have any other practical suggestions other than "stick it out and hope my body eventually adjusts"?
Thanks,
doug

How long have you been out of the hospital and how long has it been since you changed your diet? Also are you still losing a significant amount of weight? If it's been a fairly recent switch I'd give it time till your body readjusts and your weight stabilizes. Erm... all that excess weight you're losing has to go somewhere.

 

[Lord Snot]

Yes, well, that's true. A few years ago I had to look up on the Internet how to boil an egg. I found a 15 page scientific explanation with equations and graphs.

I did notice that they sell packages of whole wheat flour at my supermarket. If there is something simple I could experiment with (pita?) it might be fun to try.

Making bread is relatively easy. A standard recipe would be to mix 500g of flour with 5g (a teaspoon) of fast-acting yeast, 1/2 tsp salt and a tablespoon of fat like vegetable oil or margarine. You would knead this dough for several minutes then place it in a bread tin and leave it in a warm place (like a boiler cupboard) for 20 minutes - 1 hour until it has risen a bit. Then you bake it in the oven for about 40 minutes. I don't know how it would work without the fat as I've never tried it.

You could also buy a breadmaker, and then you just pour in the ingredients and turn it on.

Doug, have you ruled out medical issues that could give you this reaction? Perhaps if you are suddenly eating things you weren't eating before the diet, or in much larger quantities, you might be discovering that you are intolerant to something. Your diagnosis could be right and it's just a reaction to a sudden change in diet, but 6 weeks of a constantly upset stomach sounds quite severe and draining. If you haven't, I think it'd be wise to see your doctor and try and rule out other things that could be causing this.

 

[Doug]

I got out of the hospital on 5/25. In the hospital they put me on an 1800 calorie/day diet for the week I was there. It's wasn't vegan, or even vegetarian, but like with a regular Japanese diet it was mostly plant based, with just a little bit of fish or chicken or pork used inside salads for flavoring. During my one week in the hospital I lost 5 kg.

Since getting out it's been 3 weeks since I started the Ornish diet and I've lost an additional 3.4 kg for a total of 8.4 kg = 18.5 lb in 4 weeks.

I know the excess weight has to go somewhere. But I thought it was mostly urinated or breathed away in water vapor. Weird. I never gave it much thought.

doug

p.s. I ordered some organic, whole wheat pasta online this evening.

 

[Doug]

Lord, is there an alternative recipe that doesn't require any added oils. On the Ornish program (with heart-disease reversal) you are not supposed to eat foods with added oils.

I would say it's been more like 3 weeks than 6 weeks. The week I was in the hospital I didn't have any digestive issues. So it's just the 3 weeks since then. It's not like I'm eating anything I've never eaten before. I've always eaten tofu. And I've frequently had lettuce, cucumbers and tomato salads for lunch. And sometimes I drank soy milk. Rice, of course, I've had a lot. And I've never really had any problems.

I think I'm not just not used to eating this much of vegetables every day. That is probably it. It might just be too many vegetables and fiber all at once. I don't think I have any food allergies per se, like a gluten intolerance or anything like that. At least as far as I know.

doug

 

[Doug]

Aha! I was right!

From the Mayo Clinic site:

When you lose weight, where does the lost body fat go?

Answer

from Katherine Zeratsky, R.D., L.D.​

To understand the answer, it helps to remember that fat is basically stored energy. Your body converts fat to usable energy for your muscles and other tissues through a series of complex metabolic processes. This causes your fat cells to shrink.
These metabolic activities also generate heat, which helps maintain your body temperature, and waste products. These waste products — water and carbon dioxide — are excreted in your urine and sweat or exhaled from your lungs.

 

[Lord Snot]

Lord, is there an alternative recipe that doesn't require any added oils. On the Ornish program (with heart-disease reversal) you are not supposed to eat foods with added oils.

I would say it's been more like 3 weeks than 6 weeks. The week I was in the hospital I didn't have any digestive issues. So it's just the 3 weeks since then. It's not like I'm eating anything I've never eaten before. I've always eaten tofu. And I've frequently had lettuce, cucumbers and tomato salads for lunch. And sometimes I drank soy milk. Rice, of course, I've had a lot. And I've never really had any problems.

I think I'm not just not used to eating this much of vegetables every day. That is probably it. It might just be too many vegetables and fiber all at once. I don't think I have any food allergies per se, like a gluten intolerance or anything like that. At least as far as I know.

doug

I'm no bread expert, but according to this forum I found you can omit the oil: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20426/oil-or-no-oil-bread The bread will be drier and go stale quicker, so if it's only you eating it you will probably want to make small amounts at a time. The recipe I gave above will make a 1.5lb loaf, about 8-10 slices.

If the problem persists for much longer, say in another 2 weeks time, I would definitely see a doctor. If it was me I would have seen one already because I would be fearful of the effect that much diarrhoea could have on my body, but you know your own body best.

 

[Forster]

Aha! I was right!

Ahh, interesting. My info was more anecdotal, I drastically switched my diet to whole food plant based last August the bowel activity increased immensely as my body cleaned itself out so to speak and also while I went through the initial rapid weight loss for the first month or so. Still it's only been about 3-4 weeks since the switch for you so I'd give it a bit more time before I'd worry something wasn't right.

Also, learn to cook its fun.

 

[Penny79]

If you burn calories on your workout, can you eat what you burnt? Just curious.
What kind of veggies are you eating and in what form?

Smoothies might make them easier to digest, if you break down the green leafies.
You can make soups as well with root veggies and greens. I make raw soups, but I think avocado helps with that, to make it creamy. Gazpacho?

 

[Doug]

Lord, I didn't want to go into all the details, but I don't have diarrhea, or cramps. What I was alluding to was more frequent than usual motility and much softer stools than usual that don't come out "clean" like they usually do. I'm used to "once in the morning, nice and clean, and be done with it for the day." Unlike Forster, I don't feel "cleaned out" - I feel like there is always something left. Plus bloating.

Penny, I believe the answer to your first question is yes - you can eat what you burnt and the net result should be the same. Conservation of energy. It's an incentive to do more exercise, but to tell the truth, if you leave out animal products, added oils, nuts and seeds it's almost impossible to eat 1800 calories a day. I've been finding it hard to eat even 1500 calories/day. I never thought I would have that problem! I thought I ate a lot today, and I'm done for the day, and only ate 1464 calories:

Breakfast: 200 gm rice, and a banana

Lunch: large bowl of salad (lettuce, tomato, cucumber, non-oil ume dressing) and a "baked" potato

Dinner: 220 gm udon and a 200 gm container of firm tofu with wasabi

Snacks: another 200 gm container of tofu; a Danone zero-fat Activia 4 oz yogurt (an exception to vegan allowed on the Ornish plan - I thought it would help with my digestive issues); two more bananas; and some Japanese pickled veggies

That's a lot I think! Yet just 1464 calories.

For veggies I'm eating (not all every day): lettuce, tomatoes, cucumbers (raw); sliced pumpkin (microwaved); various kinds of mushrooms (simmered in water with spices); frozen mixed veggies (broccoli, green beans, carrots, simmered in water); potatoes and yams (microwaved); eggplant (simmered in water)... I think that's about it.

I'm not supposed to have avocado on this diet because of the high fat. But I can try vegetable soup.

I think I may just be eating too much of everything. That could be part of the problem. For example, I'll buy a 200 gm bag of frozen vegetables (just 62 calories) and eat the whole bag with rice. But that's a LOT of vegetables.

doug

 

[Doug]

Oh, and that totaled 53 gm of protein today, so I think I'm ok there.

doug

 

[Lord Snot]

Lord, I didn't want to go into all the details, but I don't have diarrhea, or cramps. What I was alluding to was more frequent than usual motility and much softer stools than usual that don't come out "clean" like they usually do. I'm used to "once in the morning, nice and clean, and be done with it for the day." Unlike Forster, I don't feel "cleaned out" - I feel like there is always something left. Plus bloating.

Oh, I see. That doesn't really sound abnormal to me. You're used to your stool being a certain way and now it's changed, so it's natural to think that this is something wrong and it should go back to how it was, but this might just be your new 'normal' stools. Your diet is very different and so the composition of your stool is very different. It may very well be like this from now on.

The bloating is different, that sounds like a digestion problem for sure.

Anyhow I'm not in the medical profession, and I don't want to give any advice except please see a doctor if this continues for too much longer. I hope you get it sorted

 

[Digger]

I applaud you for taking your health into your own hands and adopting a plant-based diet. There are way too many people just looking for pills these days. Don't worry about the poop talk... you will find that this sort of thing is discussed quite often here... in fact people seem to enjoy talking about it.

 

[Penny79]

Based on your listing of foods, it doesn't sound very colorful or interesting or like a lot of vegetables. It seems like more grains than anything.... ?
Can you add fresh dark leafy greens?
The pumpkin, potato, yams should add more calories.
What other veggies/fruits do you like? Maybe we can try to find the higher calorie/nutrient dense ones and think of ways to prepare them?
I would also find that diet pretty dehydrating since there's a lot of grains and cooked items. Dehydration would affect your stools.