OP
OP
I believe that the foundations of our society are unnatural build on oppression.
Veganism is not inherently the most ethical life style.
- Thread starter anarchist100
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I do agree that buying "vegan" products from companies that also make non-vegan products is not the best idea, I try to avoid when it's possible. It's probably also true that some smaller animals could get killed in the farming of plants and the production of vegan plant-based foods, I heard that argument a lot from non-vegans. I don't think there's much I can do about that, can I even know which plant-based products caused the most suffering of animals? I could try reducing the use of some specific ingredients and growing some things at home, but probably not until I have enough money to move out and live by myself, I am still living with my family and just being vegan is already hard enough.
Also, sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but do you think the same about restaurants? I personally don't trust "vegan" foods from restaurants that also cook remains of dead animals and other animal-derived products in the same place, and I honestly don't care about some evil fast-food corporation like McDonalds or Burger King adding vegan foods to their menus. It might be encouraging other people to go vegetarian or vegan, but I wouldn't support those restaurants and their food.
Also, sorry if this is a bit off-topic, but do you think the same about restaurants? I personally don't trust "vegan" foods from restaurants that also cook remains of dead animals and other animal-derived products in the same place, and I honestly don't care about some evil fast-food corporation like McDonalds or Burger King adding vegan foods to their menus. It might be encouraging other people to go vegetarian or vegan, but I wouldn't support those restaurants and their food.
Lou
Forum Legend
OP
OP
Can’t really disagree with you on that...
So I did read the Wikipedia article you posted, pretty interesting stuff...
Perhaps it is possible to implement some of the ideas, however, I would imagine that the majority of most societies are not really interested in going in this direction... For communities of like minded people who choose to live in this way if they are able to - all the best and good luck... One thing that I am Very apposed to though is violence or coercion...Sharing information and teaching is great, trying to overthrow the existing way of life is not...
For me I just feel like your original post was misleading and misdirected... We Vegans are Not who you should be trying to persuade....We are Already doing Our best! We are Already having less of a negative impact on the planet...Try influencing the carnist’s out there...
Most importantly try to live Your life as well as possible and be a Good example in the world...
I think what we're trying to get across is the frustration of answering to those who nit pick our dedication to avoiding exploitation by picking out every bit that isn't 100%
I can understand those who compare the ethics of the average city dwelling vegan to those who live off grid,relying on what they grow, and gather, and supplement with hunting very specifically targeted animals, or fish. After all, I'd imagine it would terribly hard to remain vegan if living wild in the colder climates.
There is nothing perfect in this world and never will be. We all suffer and die at some point, and what those around do has both direct and indirect affect on how much and how soon that happens.
You have to admit, the few who would choose to live primitively would more than likely have pretty adverse effects on the animal populations there.
Lou
Forum Legend
Thanks silva,
and you reminded me of something I read about years ago.
A lot of those primitive people who lived by hunting and gathering did not establish villages because every few years they had to move because they had damaged the local ecosystem so much.
On that other forum many here belonged to, we often had members who would either vehemently police what it meant to be vegan, or dilute it in the guise of the lesser evil.
Some saw no, or at least little, issue with the use of slaughterhouse by products, like enzymes and gelatine
Some even used meat that would be otherwise thrown out, and even road kill
I have to say that in my early days I was far more obsessed with the idea of animal products and personal purity than I am now. I no longer freak out if I missed seeing gelatin or honey on a product and if not easily given away I think nothing of eating it
I kinda feel personal purity is a roadblock that limits may people, and keeps people from doing better themselves
Some saw no, or at least little, issue with the use of slaughterhouse by products, like enzymes and gelatine
Some even used meat that would be otherwise thrown out, and even road kill
I have to say that in my early days I was far more obsessed with the idea of animal products and personal purity than I am now. I no longer freak out if I missed seeing gelatin or honey on a product and if not easily given away I think nothing of eating it
I kinda feel personal purity is a roadblock that limits may people, and keeps people from doing better themselves
Oh, I went off topic.
What I meant to post was a documentary that I really enjoyed about ones mans journey to live in the wilderness. Hardly completely self sufficient as he had planes fly in a couple times a year.
What I meant to post was a documentary that I really enjoyed about ones mans journey to live in the wilderness. Hardly completely self sufficient as he had planes fly in a couple times a year.
Urban Gardener
Forum Legend
I think there’s room to debate which is more ethical - the typical urban vegan way of life or a self-sufficient hunter-gatherer one.
But, in my opinion, that debate would not be a good use of our energy. We should all be pushing for more ethical food production and more equitable use of our common resources. Big corporations are the biggest enemy there. The SAD is the biggest problem.
Those of us who are more ethically minded than most should be working together more than fighting (though debate is always good too).
But, in my opinion, that debate would not be a good use of our energy. We should all be pushing for more ethical food production and more equitable use of our common resources. Big corporations are the biggest enemy there. The SAD is the biggest problem.
Those of us who are more ethically minded than most should be working together more than fighting (though debate is always good too).
VeganRachel
Forum Legend
You are buying into a lot of propaganda. Doing the least harm is the focus. Every crop grown will kill some insects and perhaps
some rodents. However, most soy and corn in the world is grown to feed farm animals, not humans. Second, there is no such thing
as a "vegan" crop. 99% of human omnivores in the world consume vegetables, grains, and nuts and seeds. Vegans are not the only
humans who consume plant foods!. It amazes me how there is so much criticism of those who are saving animal lives, but not
enough of the Billions of humans who participate in the slaughter of 70 BILLION animals worldwide. WHY are you making insects
more important than 70 billion animals? speak about the 20 million insects that are eaten for humans to consume all over the world.
THEY need to be saved!. There are many trolls on sites like these as the animal agriculture industry is desperately trying to dis-veganism
and discourage veganism in one way shape or form. Peace.
Nothing in this world is perfect. But if we save one animal extra every year, it's worth it. You're giving up at the 1st hurdle. And the use of these pesticides is gradually being phased out and new methods and safe ones are found. I've been vegan for almost 80yrs, from 1942 before the word vegan was coined by my father. Every little helps as they say.
VeganRachel
Forum Legend
Hi. I am not in favor of buying products from multiple companies that offer some "vegan" one's, including plant milks.
Meat companies are seeing the profit potential of plant foods and are adding those plant type products to their line. They
care about money, not about the animals they raise. Silk does not care enough about the environment to use organic ingredients,
and they are a corporation. White wave owns silk. In addition, 95% of the corporations that own "natural" food brands
support GMO ingredients and refused to label that their products contained them. They defeated GMO labelling laws in
4 states several years ago. So, your purchases of their products are supporting companies that did not care about you and your right
to know that their products contain GMO ingredients. The largest names in natural and organic foods have been bought up by
major corporations. You will decide whether or not to buy their products. Muir Glen and McCormick are among the companies that
spent millions to defeat GMO labelling laws..
Its' about money. They do not care about my health or the environment, and do not deserve my purchases. You vote with your consumer
food choices. But many humans are unaware and do not care about these facts. Peace,
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