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Veganism, israel and judaism

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Forest Nymph, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. Forest Nymph
    Scurvy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    At the time I became vegan approximately three years ago I became fascinated by how the Christian Bible appeared to be promoting veganism as the spiritual ideal in the Creation story in Genesis, veganism as a command from God in the book of Daniel, and vegetarianism or veganism as the predicted "paradise" foretold in the book of Isaiah. In the New Testament, in books like Romans and Corinthians, many verses seemed to indicate vegetarianism was a popular way of life for early Christians and became a point of argument with new converts from Rome and Corinth who were animal-eaters.

    Then I learned that this is all actually based in Jewish mysticism, and that the "banned" book of Enoch from the Christian Bible - which is included in Jewish mysticism and considered of historical importance yet not included in the Pentateuch (Torah) - claims that humans were taught to eat meat by demons and that animal abuse, murder and consumption is closely connected to human murder, violence and disobedience from G-d.

    Thanks to Gary Yourofsky - a famous animal rights activist who is Jewish-American - veganism began to explode in Israel in the past decade. Now an estimated 5% of the Israeli population is vegan and the largest animal rights demonstration parade ever performed happened in Tel Aviv last fall (Ingrid Newkirk of PETA was there).

    I'm really fascinated by all of this and would like to go to Israel to visit on vacation. Is anyone else interested in this philosophical strain of veganism and its implications for the world?

    Tel Aviv Animal Rights Parade 2017:



    Ingrid Newkirk Addressing Tel Aviv:



    Recent article on veganism in Israel:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eat-the-israelis-full-of-zeal-for-going-vegan

    The Book of Enoch [Enoch 1 - 7:5 - "And they began to sin against birds, and against animals, and against reptiles, and against fish, and they devoured one another's flesh and drank the blood from it."]

     
  2. nobody

    nobody Member

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    What are the implications? At most, there are 17. 4 million adherents of Judaism in the world out of 7.6 billion people. So if every single religious Jew on the planet went vegan for religious reasons, that would be an increase in the world's vegan population of 0.19%.

    As you stated, Gary Yourofsky, a secular animal rights activist, is responsible for the increase of veganism in Israel, not Judaism or Jewish mysticism. Israel is a country with a 40% non-religious population and according to the article you posted, most of the vegans there belong to this group.
     
  3. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    1) Israel is a world super power.

    2) The United States is a world super power. The "religious right" in the United States (Christians) as well as conservative Jewish people in the U.S. tend to be Zionists.

    These two reasons alone imply major world implications. Both Israel and the United States are hugely influential societies, and Israel has an impact on non-Jewish Americans who identify as religious conservatives. Therefore, Jewish people in Israel have an impact on American conservatives, a demographic typically not reached by ethical veganism or environmental veganism. Most American conservatives who are vegan (and they are a tiny minority of American vegans) did so for health reasons.

    So, veganism could spread as a cultural norm internationally among conservative groups, and people in developing countries also tend to emulate popular American culture (this is why we're having a struggle with developing countries now eating more meat and driving more cars, because they want to be like Westerners). If veganism became more mainstream in the West, it could potentially drive global veganism and reverse the trend of increased flesh intake in the developing world.

    Also, I think it's fairly obvious that the implications here are CULTURAL. Gary Yourofsky, an ethnic Jewish person, had the greatest impact on Israelis, such an impact that they have the highest numbers of vegans per capita of any nation in the world. This CULTURAL HISTORY is outlined in their religious texts and therefore still has a cultural impact, whether or not Israelis are religious in practice.
     
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  4. nobody

    nobody Member

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    Oh, then maybe someday you will be able to give a multiple choice question like this to a conservative American Christian and they will choose A:

    Which of the following is most likely to be a vegan?

    A. An Israeli Jew

    B. A godless Asian heathen

    C. One who practices a ‘doctrine of devils’


    Currently, they would definitely choose either B or C. Christians views Judaism as having the same deity, so yeah, it would be pretty influential. I’m sure this guy is not making the vegan/Israel connection:

     
  5. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    There are Orthodox Jews adopting veganism now in Israel though if you do research...including rabbis. I also had an Orthodox Jewish friend in L.A. who was vegan and she was American but had been to Israel and told me a little about it.

    There have even been claims that vegan is the new kosher.

    I know there are racist Nazi American white Christians who say things like Jews killed Jesus and others who say "we dont have to eat a certain way because we are Christian." I agree with you on that.

    BUT there are hardcore Christian Zionists in the U.S. who identify with Israel and are Old Testament types and I do think there are possibilities here.

    Overall I think its a good thing that this is happening in Israel.
     
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  6. Forest Nymph
    Scurvy

    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Also I thought about how some kosher products infiltrate the market even to non-Jews. Like meat eaters will eat Hebrew National hot dogs even if they're atheists, and how a lot of American products are actually pareve, even though a lot of non Jews don't know that pareve means dairy free they are still using cheap boxed cake mixes.

    If the demand for V certified foods takes on the same religious importance as K, UD, P and OU then that also increases the influx of vegan products through companies fearing being sued by angry Jewish people and not just secular vegans.

    As an aside OU foods are often vegan just make sure theres no egg.
     
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  7. Nekodaiden

    Nekodaiden Active Member

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    Yes, it interests me. In addition to the literature you mentioned, you might also find of interest the so called "pseudo" Clementine Homilies. Specifically Homily 8, chapters 15 and 16:


    Chapter XV. The Giants
    But from their unhallowed intercourse spurious men sprang, much greater in stature than ordinary men, whom they afterwards called giants; not those dragon-footed giants who waged war against God, as those blasphemous myths of the Greeks do sing, but wild in manners, and greater than men in size, inasmuch as they were sprung of angels; yet less than angels, as they were born of women. Therefore God, knowing that they were barbarized to brutality, and that the world was not sufficient to satisfy them (for it was created according to the proportion of men and human use), that they might not through want of food turn, contrary to nature, to the eating of animals, and yet seem to be blameless, as having ventured upon this through necessity, the Almighty God rained manna upon them, suited to their various tastes; and they enjoyed all that they would. But they, on account of their ******* nature, not being pleased with purity of food, longed only after the taste of blood. Wherefore they first tasted flesh.

    Chapter XVI. Cannibalism
    And the men who were with them there for the first time were eager to do the like. Thus, although we are born neither good nor bad, we become one or the other; and having formed habits, we are with difficulty drawn from them. But when irrational animals fell short, these ******* men tasted also human flesh. For it was not a long step to the consumption of flesh like their own, having first tasted it in other forms.

    text from: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/080808.htm

    Whether or not one believes it is really from Peter, it is an interesting commentary on a few subjects the OT is sparse on. In the story of the raining of manna (in the bible), God allows them to eat flesh (and provides it) in disgust when they complain, making them eat fowl for a month, and He also places a plague on them (Numbers 11, whole chapter, plague: verse 33)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2018
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  8. Forest Nymph
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    Forest Nymph Active Member

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    Thank you for this. Yes I am definitely interested. I also remember studying the raining of manna, and God's anger at being begged for quail; the historic opinion being that manna was probably some vegan food source, or at least vegetarian. Lichen or the hardened resin of the Tamarisk tree, or mushrooms are the vegan theories; the vegetarian theories believe it may have been the "honeydew" or some sort of crystalline form of a substance created by aphid insects.
     
  9. brownmetalhead
    Question

    brownmetalhead Member

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    I don't know if appealing to Judaism's religious components would work (am all for it if it does, but I'm ignorant of Jewish culture, don't know much about it. I have found that most Jewish people I have talked to are a bit more understanding of the comparisons made towards the Holocaust. All I do is bring up Eternal Treblinka by Charles Patterson, where it outlines how Nazi's literally built holocaust facilities by applying slaughterhouse schematics to human dimensions. Nazi concentrations camps were literally the equivalent of animal slaughterhouses, with the "products" being different. Its not using any rhetoric, its just using historical facts and helps contextualize how messed up slaughterhouses are to Jewish people and loads of others.
     
  10. Sally
    Joyful

    Sally Active Member

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    Isn't it sad that people still have to be told what is right and what is wrong. Very few people seem to have any internal moral compass. Taking a life is wrong, we all know that instinctively, but in the name of religion and patriotism, people are happy to grab at those straws that allows them to be legal murderers. MEAT IS MURDER - thank you Morrissey.
     

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