Why are Consumers Buying Fewer Meat Alternatives?

[Mufflon]

If you wanted plant milks, you better be prepared to make it yourself. Since there weren't any chick'n nuggets out there, or meat alternatives; it was easier to throw a can of beans in there. Legumes, nuts, oats, etc, were my convenience foods, because making a gluten roast from scratch was a lot of work.

Now it's just as easy to throw some chikn' nuggets into the oven. Times are changing.

 

[beforewisdom]

I read a similar article recently. Basically, the meat industry launched a huge counter-advertising campaign showing people how artificial the ingredients are of neo mock meats.

They aren't lying.

Most are protein powder, oil, added synthetic vitamins, binders, miscellaneous chemicals.

Great for a treat, not for a dietary staple.

Many Americans suffer from long term micronutrient deficiencies disguised as other other health problems.

Food scientists don't even known what is in food let alone if it is important to put back into artificial food.

My hopes are behind the mock startups that use mushrooms. Mushrooms are real food, and are packed with micronutrients. Ecologically they require very few resources and some startups can turn out new "crops" within a matter of weeks.

 

[LoreD]

I am curious to see what happens with the "alt meat" market in the near future. We see a lot of reports that sales are falling and there is no longer as much excited talk about fermented/cell-based products as has been the case in the past. I read a pretty thorough analysis recently that highlighted quite a few areas of concern with those technologies (I have no idea if the author was right though).

Judging by what I see at my local supermarket, I think it's true that sales are not growing strongly or are even falling. Our alt meat section is quite small and, in some cases, pushed off into a corner.

I think the sad reality is that most people are not convinced by the ethical arguments of veganism and are increasingly being convinced that sustainability and environmental concerns are not as significant as has been claimed. Plus, there is a lot of inbuilt opposition to not eating meat (a psychology about it, I think). The animal ag industry has been very successful in pushing back against anti-meat messaging. But it may depend on where we are talking. Some countries may be changing more than others, I really don't know.

I think one thing is for sure - I don't believe that alt meats are essential for people either endorsing veganism or embracing a plant-based diet, but a cheap and equally tasty alternative would be critical to lead to the majority changing their diet.

I think it is the price. The meat alternatives are a little pricey. The same issue is happening in the meat market. Tyson is closing 4 plants because of declining sales.

I've gone into my local Metro Market alt meat section, and usually walk on by. $9 for a bag of premium chicken nuggets. Even the ordinary chicken nuggets are coming in at $6-7. Beyond and Impossib!e 2 pack burgers are about $6. As an individual, I can't justify the cost. I just can't imagine buying
these products for an entire family. Even my favorite vegan corndogs are only a once in a while treat.

The regular line of Morningstar Farms, Quorn, and Bubba's Veggie have stayed reasonable in price, but the others I can only afford when they go on clearance.

 

[LoreD]

I read a similar article recently. Basically, the meat industry launched a huge counter-advertising campaign showing people how artificial the ingredients are of neo mock meats.

They aren't lying.

Most are protein powder, oil, added synthetic vitamins, binders, miscellaneous chemicals.

Great for a treat, not for a dietary staple.

Many Americans suffer from long term micronutrient deficiencies disguised as other other health problems.

Food scientists don't even known what is in food let alone if it is important to put back into artificial food.

My hopes are behind the mock startups that use mushrooms. Mushrooms are real food, and are packed with micronutrients. Ecologically they require very few resources and some startups can turn out new "crops" within a matter of weeks.

Very true. Babybel brought out their vegan Babybels, and they were awful.

Ingredients: water, modified food starch, coconut oil, calcium citrate, no more than 2% of each: salt, natural flavor, citric acid, beta-carotene (color), cyanocobalamin (vitamin b12).

Nutrition (per piece / cheese wheel): 50 calories, 3.5g fat, 4g carbs, 0g fiber, 0g sugars (includes 0g added sugars), 0g protein. Fortified to acheive the following RDA percentages: 10% calcium, 15% vitamin B12*

 

[shyvas]

Very true. Babybel brought out their vegan Babybels, and they were awful.

Ingredients: water, modified food starch, coconut oil, calcium citrate, no more than 2% of each: salt, natural flavor, citric acid, beta-carotene (color), cyanocobalamin (vitamin b12).

Nutrition (per piece / cheese wheel): 50 calories, 3.5g fat, 4g carbs, 0g fiber, 0g sugars (includes 0g added sugars), 0g protein. Fortified to acheive the following RDA percentages: 10% calcium, 15% vitamin B12*

Dairy Babybel tastes awful so it`s not a surprise that the pb version is also vile.

 

[silva]

I think it is the price. The meat alternatives are a little pricey. The same issue is happening in the meat market. Tyson is closing 4 plants because of declining sales.

I've gone into my local Metro Market alt meat section, and usually walk on by. $9 for a bag of premium chicken nuggets. Even the ordinary chicken nuggets are coming in at $6-7. Beyond and Impossib!e 2 pack burgers are about $6. As an individual, I can't justify the cost. I just can't imagine buying
these products for an entire family. Even my favorite vegan corndogs are only a once in a while treat.

The regular line of Morningstar Farms, Quorn, and Bubba's Veggie have stayed reasonable in price, but the others I can only afford when they go on clearance.

I've been finding the Beyond two pack burgers for average $4.99. the ground pound like $7.99. The Italian sausage $7.99.
Morningstar is regularly $4.50 now.
I am finding a whole lot of new plant based items for lots more, which I don't even care about. I'm way too happy with making my seitans.

 

[g0rph]

No. They aren't.

The term "cheat meal" is IMO something that puts an emotional and moral component to food that's completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

People on various diets talk about "cheat meals" or "cheat days". Now vegans are talking about "cheat meals" when eating meat alternatives (not real meats, mind you...) or maybe anything other than self-cooked and/or WFPB?


Again, no. That's simply called "convenience food" and has been around since like forever, including frozen vegetables, pre-cut greens, canned beans and fruits.

Fair enough. In that context, you are correct.
I do personally regard using pre-made burgers etc as cheating(with no shame in it), but yes, using the word "cheat meal" would be confusing.

 

[Lou]

I read a similar article recently. Basically, the meat industry launched a huge counter-advertising campaign showing people how artificial the ingredients are of neo mock meats.

I've seen the ad. Misleading at best.
Articles about it are at the bottom

They aren't lying.

Most are protein powder, oil, added synthetic vitamins, binders, miscellaneous chemicals.

you're right about the protein powder, but as far as I know the rest is just false
For example here are the ingredients of a beyond Burger

Water, Pea Protein*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Beet Juice Extract (for color), Carrot. *Peas are legumes.​

Great for a treat, not for a dietary staple.

Well, yes. but the main thing is that they are better than a burger. For you, the environment, and the cows.

Many Americans suffer from long term micronutrient deficiencies disguised as other other health problems.

Yes. but the solution is to eat more plants. Not more animals.
Sure they should eat less processed food, too.

Food scientists don't even known what is in food let alone if it is important to put back into artificial food.

That is sort of an exaggeration. Although nutrition is a soft science, Chemistry isn't. We know what's in food. Oh, there is a lot more to know about the role of phytonutrients. But I don't think there are any great mysteries to be solved.

Everything in a plant burger has been made by plants. Only a very few use some kind of GMO. and very few add and any kind of chemical except for salt.

Fake Meat vs. Real Meat - The New York Times

www.nytimes.com

New Study Compares Nutrients in Plant-Based and Beef Burgers

A recent study found that plant-based burgers are higher in fiber, but also higher in sodium and saturated fat, compared to beef burgers.

www.verywellfit.com

 

[beforewisdom]

I've seen the ad. Misleading at best.
Articles about it are at the bottom


you're right about the protein powder, but as far as I know the rest is just false
For example here are the ingredients of a beyond Burger

Water, Pea Protein*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Beet Juice Extract (for color), Carrot. *Peas are legumes.​

How is that list NOT a list of chemicals, additives...junk... etc?

Well, yes. but the main thing is that they are better than a burger. For you, the environment, and the cows.



Yes. but the solution is to eat more plants. Not more animals.
Sure they should eat less processed food, too.

I never wrote that people should eat meat instead of the neo-mock meats. They should eat plant foods.

That is sort of an exaggeration. Although nutrition is a soft science, Chemistry isn't. We know what's in food. Oh, there is a lot more to know about the role of phytonutrients. But I don't think there are any great mysteries to be solved.

I'll admit that I am not a researcher with relevant degree, how about you?

I see articles all of the time about some new phytochemical discovered that is important to health.



Neo-mock meats are treats at best, they shouldn't be used for stable foods.

 

[Brian W]

Most are protein powder, oil, added synthetic vitamins, binders, miscellaneous chemicals.

And probably still healthier than their meat alternatives. You can get the rest of your nutrients from the accompanying vegetables and starchy foods like omnivores do.

 

[Brian W]

How is that list NOT a list of chemicals, additives...junk... etc?

It is a list of plant derived substances, many of them quite healthy.

 

[Brian W]

I think we do well to remember a few things

1. All food is made of chemicals
2. "Natural" is not well defined and is not necessarily better
3. Cooked food, tofu and fermented foods such as tempeh and many soy products are all processed so processing food is not necessarily bad.

 

[silva]

How is that list NOT a list of chemicals, additives...junk... etc?

Water, Pea Protein*, Expeller-Pressed Canola Oil, Refined Coconut Oil, Rice Protein, Natural Flavors, Methylcellulose, Potato Starch, Apple Extract, Pomegranate Extract, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Vinegar, Lemon Juice Concentrate, Sunflower Lecithin, Beet Juice Extract (for color), Carrot. *Peas are legumes.

Exactly what are the 'chemicals, additives...junk" ?
The worst on the list are the oils. Methycellulose is nothing but fiber. Potassium chloride is a mineral supplement. Everything else are extracts from plants, lecithin as emulsifier, and protein powders
I'm not a researcher with a relevant degree--but this guy is, and one of the strictest when it comes to defining whole plant foods as comparisons:
Dr Michael Greger:
"Now, I’m not happy with the added salt, which is about a quarter of the American Heart Association’s 1500 mg daily upper sodium limit, or the saturated fat, thanks to added coconut oil, but these do seem to be outliers. In the largest study of the nutritional value of plant-based meats to date, saturated fat levels of similar products only average about 2 grams per serving––much better than the animal-based equivalents. Sodium remains a problem throughout the sector though, like nearly any other processed food out there."

From - Are Beyond Meat and the Impossible Burger Healthy? | NutritionFacts.org

 

[Lou]

I think we do well to remember a few things

1. All food is made of chemicals
2. "Natural" is not well defined and is not necessarily better
3. Cooked food, tofu and fermented foods such as tempeh and many soy products are all processed so processing food is not necessarily bad.

I do agree with you. but you know I'm a nitpicker

Everything in the universe is made of chemicals. But most people are concerned with "added" "man made" chemicals.
And even those aren't all bad. A lot of the B vitamins are synthetic.
And then there is the inverse. Lots of Naturally occurring poisons in nature.

Everything we eat is (technically) processed. You pull a carrot out the ground and wash it and boil it - that is three processes. and if you peel it - that's four.
The oatmeal you cook in the morning has been thru at least 5 processes.

But people are mostly concerned with "highly processed" foods. And as you suspect it is not really well defined. But the general idea is that it has had stuff removed and other stuff added. Typically fiber removed and sugar, salt, and oil added.

So, yup, Beyond Burgers fit in the category of highly processed. But they are still better for you than a beef burger.

And although the only ingredient in some beef burgers is beef. That too is not always the case. The cook almost always adds salt. And if you buy a frozen beef burger - it too has a list of ingredients. Many burgers contain fillers, preservatives, and additives. I can't remember if there was anything to the Pink Slime Scandal,

Also even if they are not adding stuff to the beef. They certainly are adding stuff to the cow. Besides vitamins and minerals they typically add hormones and antibiotics.

Oh. I just thought of something. we should start a rumor that the hormones given to dairy cows are turning children gay. The Republicans would stop funding dairy in a heart beat.
Oh, wait, NVM. I forgot that the GOP doesn't give a rat's *** for the health of Real children. Plus the US Government is firmly in the pocket of "big dairy".

 

[silva]

What is far too ignored is that the flesh of animals is processed by the animal. When meateaters defend their choices they often seem to speak of pastured grass fed cattle, and chickens that walk around in the sun eating grains and bugs. The reality is very very different!
Meat is processed before the animals are ever slaughtered, and their hormones and feed is what is eaten

 

[Lou]

Meat is processed before the animals are ever slaughtered, and their hormones and feed is what is eaten

Well, I guess. but that is a very broad interpretation..
All living organism are undergoing changes. Ingestion, digestion, metabolism, growth, excretion......
Plants also undergo change.

Yes it true that livestock is "contaminated" with hormones, antibiotics, etc. But plants too are contaminated with pesticides, insecticides, and fertilizer.

So I think before we make the term almost meanigless we stick with the general accepted idea that highly processed foods have undergone large changes in the physical and chemical makeup that has resulted form mechanical and chemical changes that removed some components and added others.

But then I should be fair and add that a burger patty has undergone many processes after the animal is slaughtered. Only ending with grilling and adding toppings and a bun.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

Some people (not all) could afford these Beyond things at least occasionally by making cuts elsewhere. It´s only $20 extra per year to afford a fair number of them. That´s one less night out at a bar, one less takeaway, one less Amazon purchase, one less tank of gas by driving a few less places. I guess it depends what your priorities are.

 

[Jamie in Chile]

I´ve read a few articles on this theme and I think a lot of this is media spin to some extent. I see no evidence that plant based meat has really gone into a decline or even a sustained plateau. The articles are based on bits and pieces that relate to one specific company rather than the whole market, or are anecdotal.

It may be a short term decline, but that could be a cost of living adjustment due to inflation. There´s no evidence that I see that we won´t see a return to growth in 2024. My guess is sales of global alt meat in 2024 will be a record. I also think that alt meat of some sort will be big long term.

Remember it´s boring for the media to write that sales are so so. Everything has to be exaggerated to be either extremely positive or extremely negative. If sales were expected to double and they go up 40% it´s a disaster.

The issue appears to be one of over supply rather than under demand. When Beyond´s share price was very high, it didn´t have as much competition. And now it does.

You often see this in growing markets. Everyone piles in trying to get a piece of the action and it becomes a mess. Electric vehicle companies have been going bust recently even as sales grow, same thing I observed in the past in other areas like LED and solar where companies went to the wall even as the market boomed.

I think a couple of years ago alt meat was very hot and everyone got over excited and too many companies were bringing out products left, right and centre.

 

[Lou]

There are probably other threads that are a better fit for this story - but this thread has been pretty active and interesting so far so I thought this article would get the attention it deserves here.

The “gigantic” power of the meat and dairy industries in the EU and US is blocking the development of the greener alternatives needed to tackle the climate crisis, a study has found.​

​

The analysis of lobbying, subsidies and regulations showed that livestock farmers in the EU received 1,200 times more public funding than plant-based meat or cultivated meat groups. In the US, the animal farmers got 800 times more public funding.​

‘Gigantic’ power of meat industry blocking green alternatives, study finds | Meat industry | The Guardian

 

[Jamie in Chile]

We need to campaign to stop public money going to meat. Just make sure it doesn't alienate by coming across as anti-meat or a campaign that only vegans would support.

Saying things like "Removing subsidies from meat production is just a way to level the playing field and ensure that customers get a free choice of whatever food they prefer. Since animal products are associated with climate change and pandemics it's not an industry that should be getting a disproportionate share of tax payers money".

Over time, a moderate message like that, given enough debate, could be supported by more of the public than those that oppose it.