Would I still be considered vegan if I ate cultured meat?

For people like me, who are vegan for the sake of animal rights, eating a dead animal is not the problem; killing it is. So I am fine with eating lab-grown meat once it arrives on the shelves in my country, and would still considered myself vegan if I did. I imagine many vegans centered on animal rights would think the same way. However, there are people who are vegan for health reasons, and in their view, eating cultured meat would classify me as non-vegan. Do you believe that eating cultured meat would make an otherwise vegan person non-vegan? And if a great number of vegans decide to eat cultured meat, how are we going to deal with the inevitable confusion surrounding the term "vegan"?
Vegansurveyor, how much do you care about being labelled a "vegan". If that is important to you, then you need to find the purest interpretation from the purest vegan and work from there. Or you could view veganism as an idea about how to make the best ethical choices. In your case, the question is how far you think one should take the matter of animal rights. In fact I think you need to work out what you even mean by the concept. Animals do not have rights naturally - "rights" is a convenient way to describe the idea that we formalise the relationship we have with them. And because we are the ones doing that, we get to decide just what rights should be extended.

Given you don't agree with killing other animals, it seems cultured meat gets a tick there. Taking the cells from a living being without their consent would seem to violate their rights (with the above caveat), but I assume that if you have a pet you are happy to treat them in all sorts of ways without their consent, starting with their imprisonment. Given the benefits of cultured meat in terms of saving animal lives and reducing impacts on the environment by reducing the need for agricultural land, I think the invasive nature probably can get a tick as it is certainly no worse than things vegans already do to other animals every day.

The matter of eating flesh is not veganism, it is sentimentalism. People have eaten other humans. If you like meat and you are willing to accept that cultured meat is within your world view, then it is OK to eat it. And support it.

Veganism isn't a club. It's a way of thinking about how to make choices about behaviour. Who cares what Donald Watson thinks, it isn't his call what you do.
 
Not exactly to the point but I didn't want to make a new thread for this - and this thread seemed to be close enough.


This is a good quote from the article

Expanding our current models of industrial animal agriculture to meet this need would be catastrophic to our health and our planet, not to mention the animals themselves.​
Clearly, something has to give.​
One obvious option would be for all of us to become vegetarians.​

The author should have said vegan but it doesn't matter. He dismisses the option as.... well he doesn't really have a good reason. Unpractical? Unrealistic?

Instead he proposes a Moo Shot. Like a moon shot, but for food. A government "food research agency", that would promote alternative and cellular animal agriculture."

I think it would be just a lot easier just to put that money to promote veganism.
 
I think it would be just a lot easier just to put that money to promote veganism.
I may be wrong, but genuine veganism is extremely unlikely to become commonplace in the near future. Probably not ever, unfortunately. Cell-cultured meat has potential for a variety of reasons and the average person is not likely to have philosophical objections to it. Should it become cheap enough it will really threaten tradtional producers because the food entertainment industry will pick it up for the improved profit margins. Traditional producers will not be able to compete. I wonder if that will simply drive expansion of intensive systems while smaller traditional producers go under, at least in the short to medium term?

All of that said, I have genuine doubts we are going to see a general increase in global prosperity; instead I think prosperity is already declining and will be hastened by a transition to renewable energy. The worst thing that could happen is the world finding a form of energy as cheap and dense as coal and oil have been. If we crack nuclear fusion I think the future for the rest of the planet is grim indeed.
 
I may be wrong, but genuine veganism is extremely unlikely to become commonplace in the near future.
Color me optimistic. I see a trend that people will become less dependent on meat. Maybe not full on veganism but Beyond and Impossible are selling a lot more product. The shelves are full of plant milks. and there are a lot more "traditional alternatives to meat".

I don't expect veganism to become commonplace but I think we can expect a lot more people become more interested in eating less meat. However to contradict everything I just said, I know that meat consumption world wide is increasing.
Probably not ever, unfortunately. Cell-cultured meat has potential for a variety of reasons and the average person is not likely to have philosophical objections to it. Should it become cheap enough it will really threaten tradtional producers because the food entertainment industry will pick it up for the improved profit margins.

"food entertainment industry"??

All of that said, I have genuine doubts we are going to see a general increase in global prosperity; instead I think prosperity is already declining and will be hastened by a transition to renewable energy.

Factoring in the rise of the middle class in India and China - I think we are going to see an increase in global prosperity. and I don't see what renewable energy has to do with it.
The worst thing that could happen is the world finding a form of energy as cheap and dense as coal and oil have been. If we crack nuclear fusion I think the future for the rest of the planet is grim indeed.

I think you have that backwards.
 
I can easily imagine a future where eating animals is looked at as gross. The same way I thought of eating entrails and brains as repulsive, yet found eating the other parts of animals just fine. Why not see lab grown genetic equivalents to meat as normal, but the farming of animals as primitive and weird?
 
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I think a lot of people are confused with the term "vegan". Veganism is about abstaining from eating meat products and animal cruelty. If you are not truly against animal cruelty and you are simply just not eating meat for the sake of diet/nutrition, then you are plant-based.
 
I think we can expect a lot more people become more interested in eating less meat. However to contradict everything I just said, I know that meat consumption world wide is increasing.
I don't know, as you say globally meat consumption is rising though more white meat (poultry and pork). I suspect while plant-based foods will grow in popularity, they will tend more to supplement traditional animal-based foods. At best the result might be a slowing of the rate of increase in meat consumption (with the caveat that I suspect we will see a global decline in prosperity over coming decades).

"food entertainment industry"??
A term I use for how food in the West is often consumed. A lot of our eating is not about survival or nutrition - it is a pleasurable, social activity. Cafes, restaurants and fast food takeaway are about entertainment. There is nothing wrong with eating for fun but when it becomes a massive industry servicing billions of people its impact becomes huge. Many animals are killed literally for fun.

Factoring in the rise of the middle class in India and China - I think we are going to see an increase in global prosperity. and I don't see what renewable energy has to do with it.
Modern civilisation, especially our economies, are essentially energy at work. The progression from wind and animal power to coal and later oil enabled the development of innovative technology and huge increases in food production. All of this enabled a massive rise in population. However, the biggest growth spurt was from the use of oil which was plentiful and energy dense. We went berserk over the past couple of centuries chewing up all the oil and coal we could. While there is still plenty of it, the cost of recovering it is increasing. It needs more and more energy to produce energy from those sources, so we are facing a decline in energy available to our civilisation. Wind and solar are not a replacement as they are unreliable, intermittent and require extensive redundancy and storage to work. The energy cost of producing wind and solar and storage is greater than that of coal and oil. Overall, the transition to wind and solar that people are mooting would cause a decline in overall global prosperity. In the shorter term, wind and solar are not reducing fossil fuel use but are instead proving to be something of an addition much like I mentioned above about plant-based foods. Worse, they require FFs to build them.

I think you have that backwards.
I may be too cynical. However, I believe that only external constraints can prevent us getting into massive resource overshoot. Like any population of animals, we use what we can as fast as we can. Oil allowed us to stretch the boundaries and overcome natural constraints. Wind and solar may cause a contraction of civilisation as energy becomes less available and consumption declines. Nuclear fusion, or some other very cheap and dense energy source on the other hand would allow us to continue extracting resources and growing our population. No-one is volunteering to constrain population and consumption because our economies and economic system depend on continual growth. A new and better energy source would lead to more exploitation of the natural world.

I think a lot of people are confused with the term "vegan". Veganism is about abstaining from eating meat products and animal cruelty. If you are not truly against animal cruelty and you are simply just not eating meat for the sake of diet/nutrition, then you are plant-based.
I think veganism is confused. It should be about making informed and rational decisions about our relations with other animals wherever our needs/interests intersect with theirs. In terms of food, as best I can tell it doesn't follow that a blanket prohobition on eating other animals is rational. Donald Watson's motivations were more sentimental than rational - he didn't like to see other animals hurt and killed. But our entire food system hurts and kills other animals and damages the environment. A more informed approach may indeed continue to use animals for food (because let's face it, the natural world works the way it does, not how we wish it did).
 
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I would be okay with calling it strict vegiterian.
regardless as for considering it vegan well if any animal exploitation was involved with it then I still wont count it as vegan but it's still a drammatic improvement over any alternative i can think of and still seams better than killing a creature, even if it's much further down the food chain.

Then again I'm in favour of using the term vegan only more strictly then is normal.

Also to clarify the problem isn't meat or where it comes from that perspective,
And I wouldn't chose it because of aesthetics it's entirely about ethics,
or rather actually even that's a to specific and not specific rather it's about,
Other similar level of thinking, concious creatures deserve the same consideration as we would demand of humans including those who aren't on "as high a level.

~ At the most superficial level of setting ground work, this would mean accepting the obvious consequences of the argument from the margins.
But, also a few modification that this then also extends to relatively marginal cases of the broadest circle of compassion.
and secondarily even those outside of this general circle, also deserve consideration and that unless differentiation that would use justify for example killing or raping is actually specific to the forseable consequences of the action itself it is irrelevent to wether we can justify doing so to a creature lacking said trait.
 
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New "secret" info revealed.
this changes everything.

Lab Grown Meat Is Not Vegan.


Earlier in this thread I said I would like to try it for the experience but unlikely to make it a habit. Now I'm not even sure I'll try it.

An important step in making it uses "... the blood of unborn cow fetuses, extracted from their mothers after slaughter."


If this topic is interesting to you, read the article for a full understanding.
 
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It actually is about eating meat in general, as we view animals with like respect as we do humans. Do you have the same reasoning for why you don't eat human corpses? Vegans do not eat animal products, whether they've died naturally, or not

The conflict about whether cultured meat is vegan is about how the cells are obtained, not the product itself.

People that are plant based for health shouldn't have any opinion of whether it's vegan, but wouldn't eat it because it's unhealthy!

There are real dairy ice creams out there that are technically the same as dairy, produced in a lab. They have nothing to do with animals, but are the same as dairy, and yes, they are vegan
What does this mean: "The conflict about whether cultured meat is vegan is about how the cells are obtained, not the product itself" ?
 
The link Lou provided explains it--
I am learning so much I didn't know about animal cruelty. I initially wanted to be vegan to maintain my good health and try to loose weight. But now I'm seeing that there are more ethical reason to reframe from eating dairy or meat products
 
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An important step in making it uses "... the blood of unborn cow fetuses, extracted from their mothers after slaughter."

Companies are working on alternatives so that they don't have to rely on animal serum to feed the cells.

Upside Foods created an alternative a few months ago.

Animal Component Free: UPSIDE’s Cell Feed Breakthrough Levels Up the Future of Cultivated Meat:
 
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For people like me, who are vegan for the sake of animal rights, eating a dead animal is not the problem; killing it is. So I am fine with eating lab-grown meat once it arrives on the shelves in my country, and would still considered myself vegan if I did. I imagine many vegans centered on animal rights would think the same way. However, there are people who are vegan for health reasons, and in their view, eating cultured meat would classify me as non-vegan. Do you believe that eating cultured meat would make an otherwise vegan person non-vegan? And if a great number of vegans decide to eat cultured meat, how are we going to deal with the inevitable confusion surrounding the term "vegan"?
As lab-grown meat is still meat from an animal, you would not technically be vegan if you ate it. However, it is the ethics that matters most. If they were able to produce lab-grown meat without animal cruelty or killing, this could be at least kind of ethical. However, they would still be taking from the animals. However, I would greatly, greatly prefer it if they could make lab-grown meat without cruelty or killing over the current practices for animal flesh, dairy and eggs. I would greatly, greatly prefer it if everyone in the world would either switch to becoming true vegans or at least only eating truly ethically-produced, lab-grown meat.
 
I am learning so much I didn't know about animal cruelty. I initially wanted to be vegan to maintain my good health and try to loose weight. But now I'm seeing that there are more ethical reason to reframe from eating dairy or meat products
I gained weight when I when vegan, and last year my cholesterol went back to the level it was prior to being lacto vegetarian>
Vegan is only an ethical choice to refrain from using products of animal explotation.
What foods vegans eat is a personal choice.
 
New "secret" info revealed.
this changes everything.

Lab Grown Meat Is Not Vegan.


Earlier in this thread I said I would like to try it for the experience but unlikely to make it a habit. Now I'm not even sure I'll try it.

An important step in making it uses "... the blood of unborn cow fetuses, extracted from their mothers after slaughter."


If this topic is interesting to you, read the article for a full understanding.
FACTS BECAUSE IT ORIGINATES FROM ANIMALS IN FORMS OF CELLS, ETC....!!!
 
I don't care whether it is "vegan" or not - it is going to be a huge ethical leap forwards. I intend to try it which means that by the original consumption definition (as opposed to motive definition) that I prefer, I am not vegan but simply an ethical consumer. I think that if we truly care about animals, we should be starting to advocate for this and here is why.

 
For people like me, who are vegan for the sake of animal rights, eating a dead animal is not the problem; killing it is. So I am fine with eating lab-grown meat once it arrives on the shelves in my country, and would still considered myself vegan if I did. I imagine many vegans centered on animal rights would think the same way. However, there are people who are vegan for health reasons, and in their view, eating cultured meat would classify me as non-vegan. Do you believe that eating cultured meat would make an otherwise vegan person non-vegan? And if a great number of vegans decide to eat cultured meat, how are we going to deal with the inevitable confusion surrounding the term "vegan"?
IMO it's not a slippery slope when we apply the adopted definition of vegan. As a scientists, I wouldn't classify lab grown meat as being out of scope for a vegan, because it adheres to the protcol of not harming animals. I would be more concerned about forming eating habbits that are sustainable, as the planet boils and ecosystems are destroyed, what can we do to sustain our eating habits, and what are we eating that is sustainable is what I believe we need to be addressing as a community. Also, PFAS were created in a lab to the detriment of humanity, so what are the long term effects of lab grown meat on human metabolism? I guess we'll find out in 10-15 years.