12 killed, 50 wounded at Aurora movie theater
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Sevenseas
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Anyone who is able to function normally in a society has a moral compass of one kind or another, as successful interaction with other human beings requires an awareness and following of some basic moral rules. Even this killer probably had a moral compass for quite some time, or partially. Saying that one doesn't have a moral compass sounds like some pretentious angsty teenager type of thing.
jeneticallymodified
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i think the term 'has a moral compass' is usually based upon the implication that the holder agrees with the underlying rationale or basic feeling (learned, instinctive, or whatever) that makes most people feel that certain things are taboo, or 'wrong', morally, and others acceptable.
a total psychopath doesn't necessarily agree that it's wrong in the slightest to kill other people (even people whom he's very familiar with, close family members, pets, etc), or even give half a crap about doing so if they stand in the way of whatever he wants- let alone feel guilt, shame, fear or remorse over at the prospect of committing/having commited what mainstream society and the law would deem to be a horrible crime..... they just know how to play the role of somebody who does give a crap... in order to continue to remain at liberty.
you can know how a moral compass works, know the right answers to all of the questions, toe the line, etc... and still be a total psycho (ie: not hold one of your own).
.... that doesn't mean i think anybody who claims not to hold a moral compass isn't talking out of their arse.... people who don't hold a moral compass, are usually smart enough to know that they should keep their traps shut about it, if they don't want to be locked up in a psych ward, long term.
Sevenseas
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If i say that i lack a compass, does that also make me a pretentious angsty teenager?
K-II
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What do you consider it to be then? It's not a term I come across much. I assumed it was something sort of like an innate feeling of 'right' and 'wrong' regarding certain actions and so on, that would presumably indicate a course of action that was more... 'correct' (hence the compass part I suppose). Correct doesn't seem like exactly the right word for the behaviour I'm thinking of, but I'm not sure what else to put there. In that case, I say that I lack one as I don't have that kind of response to things (or I just misunderstand what a feeling of rightness or wrongness would actually be like - I'm not even sure how to test this).
What you described sounds more drastic, where one can't even observe that other people react in such-and-such way to so-and-so activity. Or perhaps, lacks all desire to avoid conflicting with that behaviour in others, and simply does whatever comes to mind without bothering over what might be done in return. I don't fit this sort of description, as I tend to avoid conflict if it would ultimately be detrimental to me. Though not always, as I do have a tendency to wilfully ignore the potential for physical harm to myself sometimes. I've never actually considered which things I prioritise in this way, come to think of it, but whatever they are it's enough to keep me from going and shooting a bunch of people because it pops into my head (also because I don't think I'd actually get any satisfaction from that anyway. If I actually had such a desire in more than a passing way, I've no idea how I'd react).
I looked up the definition of angst, but I'm not really sure I understand the implication.
As far as I know there isn't any danger of this happening as long as I haven't committed any serious crimes as a result. Without anything to incriminate myself of, I don't see any reason not to speak openly about it.
Sevenseas
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Well, even people suffering from a severe case of narcissism have a sense of right and wrong action, or just and unjust action, in the sense that if someone puts them in prison without proper cause, or steals all their belongings for kicks, they're going to feel that it was not the course of action that should/ought to be taken, as a matter of decency. If they say that they only see those actions as not following the law properly, or as having unfortunate consequences, I think it's pretty likely they are either a) lying in order to promote some untenable pseudo-philosophical position or to promote a certain view of themselves b) misunderstanding words, or c) cognitively impaired.
K-II
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Well. I can't imagine I would ever agree with the reason somebody put me in prison. I'd be angry at them for interrupting my life, and resent them for whatever negative feelings I had about the experience. Stealing my stuff (if it's anything I care about, of course) has in the past made me angry. If someone literally takes something from me I generally try to fight them to get it back, but mostly something just vanishes without any other apparent explanation. The idea of decency and should or should not doesn't really enter my mind. They did something that I found unpleasant, and so I have a desire to retaliate. Of course it's not always that simple, as I don't necessarily hate people for something they do that was unpleasant. It might have been an accident, or I might like that person and be willing to let it drop after some amount of discussion/argument/fighting, rather than continue to feel hostility.
I don't know if that explains anything, but I've discovered that trying to look up words like 'good', 'moral', 'decent', and so on in the ways that they relate to each other, only seems to lead around in circles from one definition to another. So, an example seemed easier.
AspireToExpire
chomp chomp chump
Nope, it means the angsty teen would be the one who happened to throw that particular wording in the mix of this sweetheart of a crowd.
Oh wait, that would be me.
OR, that lacking a compass makes you a lost soul.
Sevenseas
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To feel really angry and resentful towards someone without having any conception of what they should have done otherwise, or of a "ought"-rule that they broke, seems to me to be highly irrational.
Although I guess people can resent a rock in their shoe for causing discomfort -- but I would say it is, deep down, irrational to have animosity towards a small rock. Indeed, I would say that when someone actually is angry at, say, a rock in their shoe, it is a case of anthropomorphism (or zoomorphism..) where they perceive the rock as having intentions, or a case of thinking "as if" the rock was placed into the shoe by some unseen goddess of bad luck, or whatever.
On the other hand, if someone steals my money and I get angry at them, that is easy to understand when I invoke a rule of one-ought-not-do-that: they broke the rule, they didn't meet my expectations, they failed, and I resent their failure.
AspireToExpire
chomp chomp chump
AspireToExpire
chomp chomp chump
hmm. and i always used mine to just figure out the direction i needed to head to get out of a canyon or something. is this like a ghetto compass?
K-II
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I find that rather more confusing. To me the money would represent some kind of positive emotion, or at least a lack of negative ones. Not directly, as it's just money, but since it's my source of food, shelter, entertainment, and so on. When they take it, the potential for those things is lessened, which is sort of like an attack against my state of mind... or something. I don't know why that makes me feel anger on top of the other consequences - and I think it would make more sense to feel like 'oh well, better start to fix this' - but that is where the anger comes from and as they have been the cause of it, I feel it toward them. Unless you mean a rule in the sort of 'if I drop an apple, it will fall' sense, I never really set up some kind of expectation. It seems sort of like an extra step somehow. Why would you feel anything about the rule itself?
Sevenseas
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Well, "I don't know why I feel angry when someone takes my stuff" is pretty much what I mean: your feeling angry or resentful towards someone for their actions has no explanation (is irrational), under the hypothetical where you don't believe in any kind of 'ought'- or 'should'-rules.
As for, "why would you feel anything about the rule itself", feelings that are associated with moral rules make them far more effective in influencing behavior (one's own and others'). Feelings of remorse in having broken a moral rule encourage one to not break it again; feeling angry towards others' violations of moral rules makes one more likely to interfere and make sure the rules are followed, etc. That's probably why those feelings are cultivated as a part of growing up in society, and maybe also why through evolution we've become to have them.
Sorry to divert the conversation. I keep seeing a picture pop up in articles about Holmes and the shooting. Its of him with headphones on and a seductive woman biting her finger behind him. They never explain this picture...just plop it in the article. Why? Did he photoshop it and its meant to be like 'look how obsessed with porn he is...hes so unhinged!'
Im really confused.
Im really confused.
I think that's one of the photos they found in his AFF profile, which has garnered some attention because he visited the site in the days before the shooting and it includes the line: "Will you visit me in prison?" He seemed to be advertising his intentions, if not trying to make himself into some kind of sexy bad boy. I'm not entirely convinced he isn't attempting to attain some sort of f-cked up cult status.
http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/21/james-holmes-colorado-shooting-sex-profile-website/
http://www.tmz.com/2012/07/21/james-holmes-colorado-shooting-sex-profile-website/
Sevenseas
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Even more reason why in an ideal world, the media would refer to him as an anonymous coward and only talk about the victims as 3-dimensional people with life stories worthy of interest.
