12 killed, 50 wounded at Aurora movie theater

[uno]

That's cause we americans have the stupid idea that guns will prevent gun violence. I mean, did any hand gun owner step up to stop this guy? I didn't think so...

i'm a multiple gun owner and would have stepped up.

I don't get your comment at all.

 

[AspireToExpire]

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

 

[uno]

Some men just want to watch the world burn.

 

[mlp]

Two articles. An opinion piece, and a brief one on body armor.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/blood-hands-obama-mitt-nra-article-1.1119049?pgno=1

http://www.wmur.com/news/nh-news/St...acre/-/9857858/15632630/-/vcftqd/-/index.html

It's not as simple as blaming any particular politician - public sentiment has swung away from gun control laws in the past couple of decades, and with public sentiment content with current restrictions or in favor of fewer restrictions, politicians aren't going to stick their necks out - it would be futile to do so, if nothing will get passed.

I do blame the NRA - its campaigns have swayed the public, and it has made itself such a force for guns in the political sphere - but ultimately, I blame the ignorance and short attention span of the American public.

sigh. the weapon is not the core issue here. you can ban them, but people will find other ways to cause mayhem and destruction.

there are deeper issues at play here. almost assuredly emotional ones.

Of course there are emotional issues at play here. And in this particular case, guns not being readily available may not have made a difference*, since this guy was smart enough and had planned long enough - he seems to have had the intellectual wherewithal and the focused intent to have been able to come up with something else as equally deadly. But in many instances, that's simply not the case.

*We don't know yet what was emotionally at play here. From the little we do know at present, it seems possible/likely that he had a sudden psychotic break some months ago - that would be consistent with his sudden difficulties in school. There are cases of very sudden onsets of schizophrenia in the early/mid twenties. If something like that is the case, and if his illness was focused in a Batman/Joker scenario, then the scenario might also have been specific about type of weapon to be used. We just don't know yet, and maybe we never will.

Actually, I think the overarching problem is our glorification of violence and of weapons. It permeates everything.

 

[uno]

It's not as simple as blaming any particular politician - public sentiment has swung away from gun control laws in the past couple of decades, and with public sentiment content with current restrictions or in favor of fewer restrictions, politicians aren't going to stick their necks out - it would be futile to do so, if nothing will get passed.

I do blame the NRA - its campaigns have swayed the public, and it has made itself such a force for guns in the political sphere - but ultimately, I blame the ignorance and short attention span of the American public.



Of course there are emotional issues at play here. And in this particular case, guns not being readily available may not have made a difference*, since this guy was smart enough and had planned long enough - he seems to have had the intellectual wherewithal and the focused intent to have been able to come up with something else as equally deadly. But in many instances, that's simply not the case.

*We don't know yet what was emotionally at play here. From the little we do know at present, it seems possible/likely that he had a sudden psychotic break some months ago - that would be consistent with his sudden difficulties in school. There are cases of very sudden onsets of schizophrenia in the early/mid twenties. If something like that is the case, and if his illness was focused in a Batman/Joker scenario, then the scenario might also have been specific about type of weapon to be used. We just don't know yet, and maybe we never will.

Actually, I think the overarching problem is our glorification of violence and of weapons. It permeates everything.

yeah, he acquired the ammo and weapons and there were no red flags.

there is that glorification. but, it could be something as simple as just being tired of life and humanity. of course, this is all guesswork. there are a million reasons why people flip out and do awful things to others around them. and every single case is different.

 

[mlp]

I think that glorification has more to do with these types of killings than most people think - the whole idea of "going out in a blaze of glory", etc.

I don't think that anyone can deny the existence of copycat crimes - why people don't see the same sort of thing at work with respect to popular culture's influence baffles me.

We're a society that has glorified guns and violence from the days of the Old West, and much of the Old West mentality remains.

 

[AspireToExpire]

6,000 rounds should have been a red flag.

 

[mlp]

6,000 rounds should have been a red flag.

As should body armor.

Seriously, why is body armor being sold at all, other than for military or law enforcement purposes? And isn't purchase of body armor a major red flag that someone anticipates being under fire?

 

[MrsSchu2u]

I'll freely admit that I judged parents who had young but fully aware children at a noon showing yesterday. I honestly would have just rolled my eyes at someone bring in an infant who would likely sleep through the show. I also admit that I was hyper vigilant, considered exit routes, and have thought to how I could keep my 14 year old and husband safe. It's so awful.

 

[led.boots]

I'll freely admit that I judged parents who had young but fully aware children at a noon showing yesterday. I honestly would have just rolled my eyes at someone bring in an infant who would likely sleep through the show. I also admit that I was hyper vigilant, considered exit routes, and have thought to how I could keep my 14 year old and husband safe. It's so awful.

In October of 2001, I was judged by a lot of people for letting my young daughter and her cousin take their scheduled flight to visit relatives in Boston. They had a great trip. I can't live in fear.

 

[Ansciess]

sigh. the weapon is not the core issue here. you can ban them, but people will find other ways to cause mayhem and destruction.

there are deeper issues at play here. almost assuredly emotional ones.

Of course the weapon is a problem. It would be much harder to stab all those people to death, and there aren't that many bombings in the U.S. It will be difficult to deal with people's "emotional" issues. But you can make attempts to restrict their access to weapons that cause so much damage. Or you could, if gun owners allowed it.

I don't know what it will take. I think even if people who argue against much tighter gun restrictions have their own kids murdered they'll just argue for...more guns.

 

[mlp]

In October of 2001, I was judged by a lot of people for letting my young daughter and her cousin take their scheduled flight to visit relatives in Boston. They had a great trip. I can't live in fear.

I think MrsSchu was talking about two different things - one of which was judging people who bring young but fully aware children to a film unsuitable for them, an issue separate from last week's incident, and the second being her own hyper vigilism arising from last week's incident.

 

[MrsSchu2u]

Led.boots, I agree whole heartedly. I guess my point was that part of being human is judging others, even if we aren't proud of it. I let my kids walk to school. We only live about a half mile away. My best friend thinks I'm absolutely insane.

I also think that there is a difference between living in fear and taking some reasonable precautions in life. I'd like to think that most everyone who has been to a movie since the other night has at least given a passing thought to the safety of themselves, their loved ones, and the community as a whole.

 

[Ansciess]

My dad used to bring me to completely inappropriate movies when I was a kid (my parents were divorced and he was a weekend dad). He saw the movies he wanted to see and brought the kids. Some were way too sexual and violent and I don't have a good memory about them and they didn't make me feel good. I don't think that's great parenting (among a number of other things that happened).

I think probably this movie was not great for a 4 year old (not talking about the 4 month old) to be at at midnight and probably reflects self-centered parenting. That the dad just took off to save himself makes me think there's a pattern of careless parenting in that family.

 

[mlp]

This article is one of many describing how support for gun control has eroded over the last decade or so:

http://www.latimes.com/news/politic...ng-colorado-shooting-20120722,0,2960563.story

 

[led.boots]

Led.boots, I agree whole heartedly. I guess my point was that part of being human is judging others, even if we aren't proud of it. I let my kids walk to school. We only live about a half mile away. My best friend thinks I'm absolutely insane.

I also think that there is a difference between living in fear and taking some reasonable precautions in life. I'd like to think that most everyone who has been to a movie since the other night has at least given a passing thought to the safety of themselves, their loved ones, and the community as a whole.

I agree I would certainly be checking the closest exit to my seat if I were going to the movies tonight.

 

[Ansciess]

the gun lobby’s rote response...First, the gun lobby goes straight to the exploitation argument — which is, of course, a big lie. You can see this because we never allow an assertion of this kind to stop conversation on other issues.

Nobody who points to the inadequacy of our flood-control policies or mistakes by the Army Corps of Engineers is accused of “exploiting” the victims of a deluge. Nobody who criticizes a botched response by the Federal Emergency Management Agency to a natural disaster is accused of “exploiting” the victims of a hurricane or a tornado. Nobody who lays part of the blame for an accident on insufficient regulation of, say, the airlines or coal mining is accused of “exploiting” the accident’s victims.

No, it’s only where a gun massacre is concerned that an absolute and total gag rule is imposed on any thinking beyond the immediate circumstances of the catastrophe. God forbid that we question even a single tenet of the theology of firearms.

The lobby then goes to its backup moves. The problem, it insists, lies in the failure to enforce existing laws — conveniently ignoring that the National Rifle Association’s whole purpose is to weaken the gun statutes we already have.

The worshipers of weapons also lay heavy stress on the psychological disabilities of the killer in a particular incident to create a sense of futility and resignation. Crazy people, they say, will do crazy things, and there is nothing we can do about this. Never mind that more rational laws would help keep guns out of the hands of people with a history of mental illness. Never mind that it’s harder to get a license to drive a car than it is to own a gun. Never mind that even a Supreme Court ruling that gave an expansive reading of the Second Amendment nonetheless acknowledged the right of the people through their legislatures and Congress to enact sensible gun regulations.

Oh, yes, and then there is their trump card: We’d all be safer, says the gun lobby, if every last one of us owned a gun.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...rule-on-guns/2012/07/20/gJQAt4gPyW_story.html

 

[Wolfie]

Studies show the vast majority of YOU would stand idly by as someone else beat, raped, or killed another person. The vast majority of YOU would not do a damn thing to help the person. Your instinct is to freeze or run, not rescue. Despite whatever you may think, you are human and humans behave this way. Countless studies prove it.

You can stand back and criticize, blame the victim all you want, but the fact is that a lot of you wouldn't behave any better if you were in that situation. Feel free to comment if you have actually been shot at in a movie theater and your instinct wasn't to run away.

While I can't say I'd risk my life to save a stranger, I would risk it to save my nephew or my dog or anyone I was close to. Leaving his kids and girlfriend behind is just plain UNACCEPTABLE.

 

[Wolfie]

Wow, that's rather rude of them.

I'd take something like that as an indication I should stay.

 

[FortyTwo]

I'm sick of people on the internet joking about this.