UK 22 Dead - Manchester Terror Attack

[Moll Flanders]

I haven't really been watching the news much today as I found it too awful to think about the children being murdered.

Just random thoughts, I'm really sleep deprived as well:

The threat was at a critical threat level in 2007 here in the UK, but it didn't last very long. I hope if there are many other people in this network that they catch them very quickly.

One of the problems (as I understand) is that there are so many people on the terror watchlists that it is impossible to follow all of them so some will inevitably fall through the cracks.

I have had experience of terrorism growing up in London since the mid 70s, but the IRA had an aim and didn't blow themselves up. I'm not defending the IRA at all, obviously, but I'm just saying that there was a solution. IMO the extremists we have in the UK now can't be reasoned with as their aim is to kill themselves and others and get their reward in the afterlife. I was watching The Daily Politics today and they were saying that the younger generations can be reasoned with but that some people have already been radicalised and probably can't be reached. Many experts seem to think there will be more terrorist attacks here and it might be years until there is some type of solution.

... So arguably he is more British than Melania Trump is American, correct?

I wouldn't have thought of it like that!

 

[PTree15]

I haven't really been watching the news much today as I found it too awful to think about the children being murdered.

Just random thoughts, I'm really sleep deprived as well:

The threat was at a critical threat level in 2007 here in the UK, but it didn't last very long. I hope if there are many other people in this network that they catch them very quickly.

One of the problems (as I understand) is that there are so many people on the terror watchlists that it is impossible to follow all of them so some will inevitably fall through the cracks.

I have had experience of terrorism growing up in London since the mid 70s, but the IRA had an aim and didn't blow themselves up. I'm not defending the IRA at all, obviously, but I'm just saying that there was a solution. IMO the extremists we have in the UK now can't be reasoned with as their aim is to kill themselves and others and get their reward in the afterlife. I was watching The Daily Politics today and they were saying that the younger generations can be reasoned with but that some people have already been radicalised and probably can't be reached. Many experts seem to think there will be more terrorist attacks here and it might be years until there is some type of solution.



I wouldn't have thought of it like that!

This is what has been on my mind of late, how to change that sort of thinking. How do you reason with people who want to annihilate everyone who isn't like them in addition to themselves? I don't even know where to start. Sometimes I wonder whether seriously ill people latch onto a cause to justify their desire to be mass murderers. I don't know; I am at such a loss with regard to offering any solutions.

 

[AeryFairy]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

 

[MadamSarcastra]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

 

[Poppy]

@AeryFairy You are in the thick of it. I'm so sorry. It's a terrible shock, I'm sure. Those poor parents.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

I was talking to a man I met yesterday as we both remembered the attack in Manchester in 1996. I was living in the Midlands at the time and lots of people I knew used to go up to Manchester at the weekend to shop and go out. The man was saying that his best friend lived there and he used to go up there to shop, then go to the bars and then to the clubs in the evenings. He said that for some reason he and his friends decided not to go out that day and he was saying that his friend still lived there now and he had been really worried about him until he had heard he was okay.

 

[KLS52]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

Sorry, Aery.

 

[PTree15]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

No need to apologize. Major hugs to you, and to you as well, Moll.

 

[shyvas]

I haven't really been watching the news much today as I found it too awful to think about the children being murdered.

Just random thoughts, I'm really sleep deprived as well:

The threat was at a critical threat level in 2007 here in the UK, but it didn't last very long. I hope if there are many other people in this network that they catch them very quickly.

One of the problems (as I understand) is that there are so many people on the terror watchlists that it is impossible to follow all of them so some will inevitably fall through the cracks.

I have had experience of terrorism growing up in London since the mid 70s, but the IRA had an aim and didn't blow themselves up. I'm not defending the IRA at all, obviously, but I'm just saying that there was a solution. IMO the extremists we have in the UK now can't be reasoned with as their aim is to kill themselves and others and get their reward in the afterlife. I was watching The Daily Politics today and they were saying that the younger generations can be reasoned with but that some people have already been radicalised and probably can't be reached. Many experts seem to think there will be more terrorist attacks here and it might be years until there is some type of solution.



I wouldn't have thought of it like that!

That is certainly true. I certainly have changed my way of life and there are many places that I don't visit anymore. This reminds me that I was in the middle of the Israeli Embassy bombing in London in the 90's and just missed being injured by 2 minutes as for some unknown reason something told me to get out of the shop (all the glass had been blown out) which was just near the Embassy. I still remember the fear and shock up until this day.

1994 London Israeli Embassy bombing - Wikipedia

What amazes me is as soon as a terrorist attack has been committed, the terrorism agencies and secret services always knew who the terrorist were. They had all the data about their whereabouts etc. It just looks like that there are far more radicalised people who are creating major terrorist networks in our countries and that we are simply helpless. I often wonder why we don't ask Israel (Mossad) to give advise as they have one of the best Intelligence agencies in the world ?

The UK are deploying armed forces mainly in London and at major airports. However, you cannot protect 100 % of the population.

Even over here, the country is on a major alert further to all the attacks in recent years. There is not a single armed police officer at the countrie's 3 rd largest airport of Marseilles.

 

[Moll Flanders]

There is a bomb disposal unit at a college in Manchester.

Bomb unit sent to Manchester street - BBC News

ETA - it was a false alarm.

What amazes me is as soon as a terrorist attack has been committed, the terrorism agencies and secret services always knew who the terrorist were. They had all the data about their whereabouts etc. It just looks like that there are far more radicalised people who are creating major terrorist networks in our countries and that we are simply helpless.

Yes, it looks like in this case the attacker had been reported to the police by his mother as well as by two members of his local community and also reported by French intelligence for having links to ISIS, but was still able to come into the UK from Libya. Unbelievable.

 

[shyvas]

Yes, it looks like in this case the attacker had been reported to the police by his mother as well as by two members of his local community and also reported by French intelligence for having links to ISIS, but was still able to come into the UK from Libya.

That is also what I had heard. I also think that the government is not giving out all the information and that the danger is far worse in reality. I think that there may be several thousand terrorist links within Europe.

 

[shyvas]

I have just watched the Queen's visit to one of the Manchester hospitals. The conversations she engaged in with the young girls who were victims of the bombing, was truly moving. Many of them were just 13 and 14 and they all spoke of what happened to themselves in a very calm manner without any hate.

I think that it is important to be able to hear and see the victims after such a horrendous attack. It just makes you realise that this is happening to real people. In this case it is innocent children that have been targeted.

LIVE: Queen visits Manchester bombing victims

 

[Second Summer]

It has nothing to do with the future election. It is the Terrorism Analyse Centre that decides what level is defined.

Yes, it's decided by JTAC, but who are they?

The decision to increase the threat level was taken by JTAC, which analyses and assesses all intelligence relating to international terrorism in Britain and overseas. It brings together counter-terrorism experts from the police, security services and Whitehall departments. They include Charles Farr, chairman of the joint intelligence committee, and Mark Sedwill, national security adviser, who both worked very closely with May at the Home Office.

Source: Critical threat level: who made the decision and what does it mean?

This is what has been on my mind of late, how to change that sort of thinking? How do you reason with people who want to annihilate everyone who isn't like them in addition to themselves? I don't even know where to start. Sometimes I wonder whether seriously ill people latch onto a cause to justify there desire to be mass murderers. I don't know; I am at such a loss with regard to offering any solutions.

I don't think most of the islamist terrorists are mentally ill exactly, just indoctrinated and/or radicalised to a point where they see terrorism as an acceptable tool, or rather, the only tool left. And why is that? Because the Muslim World and the Western World are at war. In fact, we've been at war, on and off, since the very beginning of Islam. The crusades started as a response to Muslim armies threatening Byzantium, the Christian eastern Roman empire. Fast-forward to today, and the war continues. Where the West isn't directly involved, they're propping up their favourite puppet regimes of dictators, strong-men and ruling elites in the region while the civilians suffer the consequences. Where we are more directly involved, like Iraq and Afghanistan, hundreds of thousands of civilians have died in the conflicts. All this effort the West makes in order to avoid islamists coming to power.

Let's stop pretending there is no clash of civilizations.

 

[Pirate]

Today's been even worse - talking to people at work who had young children at the concert who are now traumatised, trying to comfort one of my coworkers whose friend was there and is still missing, presumed dead... there have been more smaller-scale crimes and threats, plus a load of accidents (fires, car crashes etc. - presumably because people are on edge and distracted). I'm emotionally exhausted.

I don't even have a cheerier follow-up, sorry for the random outpouring of gloom.

I hope your co-worker's friend is ok. Did they find them?

Even though I'm 200 odd miles away, our largest office is in Manchester so a lot of friends/co-workers have been affected - though no-one I know is injured. I wish I could do more to help.
.
The whole thing makes me feel sick. I cannot wrap my head around how someone could think or do that kind of thing. I don't know what the answer is.

 

[shyvas]

Homeless Man Who Rushed To The Aid Of Manchester Victims Is Given A Home

I remember this gentleman being interviewed on Sky News. He described how he came to the rescue to some of those who were injured, before the paramedics arrived onto the scene.

 

[Moll Flanders]

Manchester attack: Hate crime 'doubles' after incident - BBC News

 

[Mischief]

I don't think most of the islamist terrorists are mentally ill exactly, just indoctrinated and/or radicalised to a point where they see terrorism as an acceptable tool, or rather, the only tool left. And why is that? Because the Muslim World and the Western World are at war. In fact, we've been at war, on and off, since the very beginning of Islam. The crusades started as a response to Muslim armies threatening Byzantium, the Christian eastern Roman empire. Fast-forward to today, and the war continues. Where the West isn't directly involved, they're propping up their favourite puppet regimes of dictators, strong-men and ruling elites in the region while the civilians suffer the consequences. Where we are more directly involved, like Iraq and Afghanistan, hundreds of thousands of civilians have died in the conflicts. All this effort the West makes in order to avoid islamists coming to power.

Let's stop pretending there is no clash of civilizations.

I don't want to pollute this thread, which should rightfully be devoted to the victims of the Manchester atrocity, with a response to this. Perhaps you could start a separate thread with basically this post of yours? I think it should be a discussion of its own.

My heart continues to go out to the victims of this bombing and, more generally, to the people of Manchester and Great Britain generally.

 

[Andy_T]

Salman Abedi wasn't a lone wolf – he was a known wolf, and the Muslim community tried to warn us about him

“What more can a law abiding Muslim do?” asked an exasperated radio host yesterday morning, after it emerged that the Manchester bomber’s family and friends tipped off MI5, who then missed five opportunities to stop him.

Let it not be said that Muslims didn’t cooperate with the authorities to report Abedi. Abedi flew a black Jihadi flag out of his window in Manchester. He was banned from his mosque. His Imam reported him. His family reported him. His friends reported him. He wasn’t a lone wolf – he was a known wolf.

But MI5 didn’t stop him. Not because they didn’t want to: because they are being run on a shoestring, while Whitehall spends taxpayers’ money on propping up friends in Libya.

Security services missed five opportunities to stop the Manchester bomber

 

[Amy SF]

Ariana Grande Will Be Joined By Justin Bieber, Katy Perry, And More For A Manchester Benefit Gig

 

[Andy_T]

Man shouted 'P***' and 'Terrorist' at surgeon who had spent 48 hours saving Manchester victims