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Almonds

Discussion in 'Philosophy' started by Veganite, Feb 9, 2018.

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Are Almonds Vegan?

Poll closed Feb 23, 2018.
  1. No, I will not partake in the mass killing of bees to polinate their almond crops

    40.0%
  2. Yes, they're plant-based, hence they must be vegan

    40.0%
  3. I don't care about the bees or almonds

    20.0%
  4. Other (Please explain)

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Veganite
    Sunshine

    Veganite Moderator Staff Member

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  2. Your Construct

    Your Construct New Member

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    I'm not trying to be a smart-aleck, but the article does specify California almonds. I assume it's ok then to eat almonds from other places? I do make it a point to try to determine if any sugar I consume is filtered with bone-char. And thankfully, I have actually found products that say their sugar is not filtered with bone-char. If this is the case, then yes, I will avoid almonds from California. If the almonds I eat are part of a salad that I buy at a store, I'm not going to go out of my way to try to figure it out. But if I buy a package of almonds, which I actually do from time to time, I will check if they are from California.
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2018
  3. Jamie in Chile

    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    Most of the world's almonds (80% or so) are from California, amazingly enough! Therefore, if you want to avoid California almonds, it would be a good idea to avoid any that don't have clear information about their source. I do eat almonds for calcium, but I am concerned about this, and the water use.

    As to whether they are vegan, that's a grey area, but I voted yes. Would rice or bread not be vegan if some animals were tilled to work the land. Anyway, who cares whether it's vegan or not. The key question is to whether it's morally appropriate.

    It would probably be better to avoid them ideally, but they are one of the few none-animal products with high calcium levels. Vegans avoiding almonds might want to keep an eye on their calcium intake.
     
  4. mikek
    Surfing

    mikek Member

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    but animals are killed all the time, especially in food production.
    growing all fruit & veg will involve deaths - consider the pesticides used. Even organic involves killing some animals. Maybe not directly, but often on purpose.

    I differentiate vegan diet & vegan lifestyle. I'm not sure a totally vegan lifstyle is even possible to the fullest extent.
     
  5. Veganite
    Sunshine

    Veganite Moderator Staff Member

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    This has been discussed by many of the ethical vegan activists online. I mean, where do you draw the line? Do you swat the mosquito on your arm or step on that bug on the floor? Where is the proverbial line for ethical vegans?

    Vegan philosophy on what's acceptable has been the subject of debate for some time. At the end of the day, I will personally do everything I can to do my part.

    Emma from Bite Size Vegan touches on that with Gary Yourofsky in this video:
     
  6. Jamie in Chile

    Jamie in Chile Active Member

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    Gary is just dodging the question here. His separation of insects/bacteria into sentient/insentient is too convenient. Because in reality there are a lot of other creatures between the two - amoebas or dust mites maybe. It seems all too convenient to value an insect similarly to say a mammal as if they are equal.

    I see it more of a continuum of creatures, with perhaps humans at the top, then intelligent animals like dolphins then down through the levels of sentience/intelligence/ability to feel pain all the way to a virus. I don't see how we can say sentient/insentient as if there is some absolute dividing line. There is no point where suddenly it is soul/automaton, or if there is, we don't know where it is and so should practice the benefit of the doubt since a non-zero probability of sentience is arguably equivalent to a finite amount of sentience.

    Therefore, it makes more sense to have a value system where in terms of moral value human > dog > fish > insect > dust mite > bacteria where the animals to the right matter less morally. In such a system, it might for example be considered morally acceptable to kill an insect who is biting you but not kill a dog who is biting you. That is easier because it is a 1 creature to 1 creature comparison.

    However in the case of honey, almonds etc we have to factor in that one portion of honey/almonds may have involved the suffering of many creatures, whereas drinking milk only involves the suffering of one. We can now say that 1 cow is worth more than 1 bee morally, but that is not the comparison. Can we say that 1 cow is worth more or less than 100 or 1000 bees which might be more of an appropriate comparison on a per calorie basis.....I don't see how we can....and therefore I don't see how we can say that almonds or honey is any better than milk.
     
  7. Veganite
    Sunshine

    Veganite Moderator Staff Member

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    One thing I know for certain, we could probably live without cows, but if bees were to go extinct, we'd not be too far behind them.
     

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