George Zimmerman trial

Wolfie said:
I can't believe the way people want to hang Zimmerman but give murderous teens a second chance. Unreal. It doesn't appear GZ set out that night to commit murder. The teens did, in both recent cases.
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I don't want to hang George Zimmerman. In fact, I'm generally not pro death penalty.

I think he should have been convicted for manslaughter. I think the teens who shot the Australian and the ones who beat the old man to death should be convicted of first degree murder.

They could all have their second chances after they've served their respective sentences.
 
Wolfie said:
But anyone can change. I've known people to change for the better in their 30s, 40s, even 50s.

I can't believe the way people want to hang Zimmerman but give murderous teens a second chance. Unreal. It doesn't appear GZ set out that night to commit murder. The teens did, in both recent cases.
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As far as I'm concerned, those teens can spend their second chances in prison for the rest of their lives. Those teens that killed because of boredom should spend their sentences in solitary, then they'll see what boredom is really like.
 
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So you're saying the ex-con learned his lesson and won't kill again? I bet GZ won't either.
 
Wolfie said:
So you're saying the ex-con learned his lesson and won't kill again? I bet GZ won't either.
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That would save us a lot of money, if it's not necessary to send people to prison in order for them to learn their lesson.
 
Wolfie said:
So you're saying the ex-con learned his lesson and won't kill again?
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I think a better way to put it is, he grew up, because he was still growing. He was lucky, though. Not every young person enters prison and comes out a better person. Many young people who are released from prison, if they're fortunate enough to get released, come out, as R. Dwayne Betts wrote in his book A Question of Freedom: A Memoir of Learning, Survival, and Coming of Age in Prison, "better able to jimmy a lock, pick a pocket, or stand on a corner selling dime bags all day." Prison is college for criminals and not a fitting place for teenagers.
 
Wolfie said:
I hope they get life.
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I hope they get a fair trial. And if in fact they killed an old man simply for fun then I wouldn't feel bad if they got life, but I don't really have a strong opinion on sentencing. I don't trust the media coverage of these events at all.
 
The ones who killed the jogger did it because they were bored. They admitted they went out with the plan to kill someone. The old man was a botched robbery reports are saying.

I hope they get a fair trial too, and then are locked away for life if they are indeed guilty. Murder is above and beyond the stupid, impulsive things teens sometimes do. In fact the only reason I don't support the death penalty is there is no going back if the wrong person is convicted and I think that happens more often than we care to admit.

I agree with you on not trusting the media. On anything. They print what sells. In fact I give them the lion's share of the blame in how society views pit bulls.
 
Wolfie said:
You can't change a sociopath no matter how young.
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How do you know they are sociopaths?

And if you are killing someone because you are "bored" like the little bastards who killed the jogger, there's a good chance you're beyond hope.
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How do you know this? All we have is the news reports, which tends to be biased towards sensationalist coverage.

At what age do we quit giving killers a chance to "change"?
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I'd say we should not use age, but instead carefully examine the evidence and what the outcomes were like for other people in similar circumstances who commit similar crimes.
 
Wolfie said:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/08/30/DeMarquise-Elkins-guilty-brunswick-baby-shooting?hpt=hp_t2

Does this one still have some growing up to do too? It wasn't his fault. His poor little brain is still developing.
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There's a good chance that "this one" was framed. Jen Roesch explains:

Two Black teenagers have been imprisoned without bail for more than four months on charges that they shot and killed an infant at point-blank range after her mother told them she had no money. But there are no witnesses other than the mother, no physical evidence tying the two accused to the crime, and no real explanation for why the young men would commit such a cold-blooded crime.

The only "evidence" against them is the claims of the white mother, which have holes and inconsistencies--and an ugly campaign by authorities and the media to portray one of the accused, along with his whole family, as a bunch of criminals and thugs.

From the behavior of cops and prosecutors to the media circus that has surrounded the case, the so-called "Baby Santiago" murder bears all the hallmarks of racist frame-ups of the past.
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Wolfie said:
http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/08/30/DeMarquise-Elkins-guilty-brunswick-baby-shooting?hpt=hp_t2

Does this one still have some growing up to do too? It wasn't his fault. His poor little brain is still developing.
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Who knows - I haven't seen the results of an unbiased psychological examination.

The opinion of what a just punishment would be depends on if you're motivated by revenge, or by a more pragmatic philosophy. Someone who is motivated by revenge would argue for a harsh penalty. Someone with a more pragmatic outlook would ask "what sort of treatment/incarceration would best keep society safe with the minimum amount of resources."
 
Zimmerman's wife got a year probation and 100 hrs community service for the lying. So Florida has him for at least another year I guess. I was hoping he'd move away and be anonymous.
 
Calliegirl said:
Looks like little Georgie is on a suing spree; first NBC and now the State of Florida. Although I think Florida deserves it for having laws that let murderers walk free.

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...da-to-pay-for-defense-expenses?lite&gt1=43001
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It is customary for someone found Not Guilty to seek reimbursement from the state.

Too bad the small, poor county that Zimmerman hails from is out the over $300,000 it had to waste on law enforcement overtime for a trial they knew the state had no chance of winning. Who can they sue?

If you are referencing 'Stand your ground laws', (which incidently were not used as a defense in Zimmerman's trial) then please castigate the other states that have the laws as well. (More than half of the nation.)

http://globalgrind.com/2013/07/23/stand-your-ground-law-26-states-breakdown-meaning-list/
"The states with stand your ground laws that specifically articulate that the use of force without the duty to retreat is lawful and that though law enforcement can investigate the situation, no arrest can be made unless it is proven that the use of force was unnecessary. To look at the actual legislation of each state, click here.

Below is a list of states with either stand your ground laws or stand your ground doctrines.
Alabama (enacted:2006)
Alaska (enacted:2011)
Arizona (enacted:2006 )
Florida (enacted:2005)
Georgia (enacted:2006)
Indiana (enacted: 2006)
Kansas (enacted:2006)
Kentucky (enacted:2006)
Louisiana (enacted:2006)
Michigan (enacted:2006)
Mississippi (enacted:2006)
Missouri (enacted:2007)
Montana (enacted:2009)
Nevada (enacted:2011)
New Hampshire (enacted:2011)
North Carolina (enacted:2011)
NorthDakota (enacted:2007)
Ohio (enacted:2008)
Oklahoma (enacted:2006)
Pennsylvania (enacted:2011)
SouthCarolina (enacted:2008)
Tennessee (enacted:2007)
Texas (enacted:2007)
Utah (enacted:2010)
WestVirginia (enacted:2008)
Wisconsin (enacted: 2011)
 
"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony." --Judge Debra Nelson to jury
 
Spang said:
"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony." --Judge Debra Nelson to jury
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Yes, she stated the law once in her instructions to the jury, just as the judge would likely do in any of the other states with similar laws. It was not brought up by the defense attorneys nor used as a defense in this case.
 

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