George Zimmerman trial
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Spang
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cornsail
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Who said anything about being willing to trust GZ's version of events?
das_nut
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I'm not trusting GZ unquestioningly. I think he may have lied or exaggerated during parts of it.
However:
1. There's several minutes that go by between Zimmerman losing Martin and the fight - as we can tell by phone records and eyewitness testimony. That give Martin more than enough time to get out of the area.
2. An eyewitness puts someone consistent with Martin's description on top of Zimmerman.
3. Zimmerman had most of the injuries, Martin did not.
4. Zimmerman passed a polygraph.
5. When the police tried to bluff Zimmerman by saying the fight was recorded, Zimmerman was relieved.
Does this prove what Zimmerman said happened? No, it does not. But his version of events is mostly consistent with what happened. I could see other possibilities as well, some which would make Zimmerman guilty, but we don't have proof of those scenarios. Which leads to the state of reasonable doubt. And if there is reasonable doubt, the not-guilty verdict was correct.
We don't convict people just because we don't like them.
OP
OP
I never said I didn't like the guy. Boy talk about putting words in my mouth. My whole point is that he's a proven liar. Straw manning is an old trick.
Polygraph test are inadmissable in court and therefore can't be used as "proof" that he's telling the truth. They are far from perfect, and that's why they can't be used in court.
You mentioned this bluff thing before. Do you have a source? In any case, "looks relieved" is subjective.
Witness - what Spang said. But also, did this witness try to assist CZ or at least call 911? If not, he was just enjoying the show. Not much of a witness.
OP
OP
At VB when I presented the fact that CZ had lied, you responded like you didn't believe me. (or want to believe me). Even after I posted the link describing the bail incident, you didn't acknowledge it.
Calliegirl
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This is so true. I had a lot of Facebook friends talking about how many people they had to unfriend and block.
Facebook Reports More Unfriending And Blocking Sunday Than Any Day In Its History
Facebook Reports More Unfriending And Blocking Sunday Than Any Day In Its History
Dedalus
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cornsail
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I said I don't know anything about the bail hearing. I didn't say that I don't believe you. On the Sean Hannity thing I disagreed with you that he was lying there (or at least I don't think it's clear whether he was lying or not). I don't think GZ's credibility is of all that much importance. In fact no suspect or defendant in a possible crime should be treated as highly credible because we know that IF they are guilty there is such a strong motive to lie to avoid prison and even if they are innocent there is probably incentive to embellish to try to sound as innocent as possible.
We can ignore GZ's testimony completely and the state still has a weak case and the defense still has a strong case. My opinions on the case aren't formed on the basis of believing GZ, considering him credible or anything of that nature.
ledboots
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I can't see the gifs or videos on my phone, but you don't think Zimmerman' s life is in danger? There have been scads of death threats against him on social media; his address, social security number, drivers license number and tag as well as his addtess are now public record, thanks to cnn broadcasting them and people tweeting. His face is also well-known and distinctive.
I just hope he gets the hell out of Florida asap, as he can legally carry his firearm again. Maybe some people really do think he should be murdered, who knows. I'm sure he will carry that pistol.
OP
OP
Yes, we all know that TM was on top of CZ and he couldn't escape (despite being bigger than TM).
But why was he engaged in a fight?
Given GZ's propensity to lie, maybe GZ was intentionally trying to provoke TM with racial slurs?. TM fuming for a few minutes and then decides to come back to confront GZ for his racial slurs...
Of course GZ would leave that out of his testimony, but that would be key, don't you think? Possibily changing the outcome of the verdict.
Yes, this is speculation. But with TM dead, all we can rely on is GZ's version of events. Relying on ther testimony of a proven liar.
Also given GZ's fathers connection with law enforcement, any police testimony is suspect.
And I don't care if GZ was an alter boy (or some equivalant). The fact that at least one juror referred to him as "Georgie" indicates that the defense worked hard to paint him as an angel. I think Whitty Bulger was one too...
Spang
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The night George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin for giving him a broken nose and bloodying him up a little bit, Zimmerman was an armed vigilante who took the law into his own hands. And in the gif set, his brother is worried about armed vigilantes taking the law into their own hands, doing to Zimmerman what Zimmerman did to Trayvon.
Only that Zimmerman is facing an immediate threat to his life unlike what he did to Trayvon.
Spang
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OP
OP
In a few months the whole thing will be fogotten by the public, and GZ can start his new job as a FOX commentator. 
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In a few months the whole thing will be fogotten by the public, and GZ can start his new job as a FOX commentator.
Yes.
cornsail
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There is not much evidence regarding how the fight started.
Now you're just speculating about something that there is no evidence for.
Are you actually saying that because GZ didn't disclose some of the initial donations he'd received (I'm not clear on what actually happened but I understand this is the allegation) at the bail hearing, that he's therefore likely to have tried to provoke TM with racial slurs? I'm struggling really hard to see any connection from one to the other.
Or are you using a logical connection/not-really-a-connection analogous to something like "Jill is a liar. Jill has not said that she admires Hitler. Therefore there is reason to believe that Jill might admire Hitler."
Not to mention there is a fair amount of evidence suggesting that GZ didn't hold any overt racial hatred or prejudices. He organized a protest against the Sanford PD for the alleged cover up of the beating of a black homeless man named Sherman Ware by a Sanford Police Lieutenant's son and spoke against the Sanford PD about it at a City Hall event if I remember correctly. Went also to the prom with a black girl, had a black business partner, mentored youths (some or all of whom were black), had a black Peruvian great grandfather and so on. He had called the police with regard to at least some white and hispanic people in the past. Also, he was investigated by the FBI looking for signs of racial prejudice and in interviewing neighbors, co-works, an ex-fiance, acquaintances and so on, they were not able to find anything.
Of course it can't be proven that anyone is not racist and I don't claim that subtle racial biases couldn't have been in play. I just think we should actually have good evidence that people are racist before jumping to conclusions. I could be remembering this totally wrong, but I think you have been (unfairly IMHO) accused of racism in the past and I defended you on that point.
Are you referring to any specific connections between RZsr and Serino, Lee and the other officers who testified or simply referring to the fact that RZsr is a retired magistrate judge?Personally I don't disregard their testimony on the basis of RZsr having been a magistrate, but you are welcome to if you like.
It seems to me that you keep making "You can't prove GZ is innocent." arguments. I'd rather know why you think he's guilt (if that is what you think).
In a few months the whole thing will be fogotten by the public, and GZ can start his new job as a FOX commentator.
I don't know how welcome he'd be considering that he's a registered Democrat who voted for Obama. Maybe he can take Colmes' job or something.
