Germany wins World War 2

[ledboots]

Thank you for posting that, CallieG, I'm glad he wrote all that down.

 

[rainforests1]

Calliegirl, RF has long been a Holocaust denier,

Evidence please. I'm more in the middle(as I am with most historical events).

 

[rainforests1]

Join the peace corpse.
Volunteer at an animal shelter.
Become a foster parent.
Grow a victory garden to share with your neighbors.
Donate products from said garden to a food bank.
Spend time visiting at a nursing home or children's hospital.
Become pen pals with a soldier.
Volunteer at a soup kitchen.
Or your local habitat for humanity.
Turn your old t-shirts into dresses or blankets for kids in third world nations.
Look into dog walking programs.
Read books to kids at your local library.
Look into grassroots political activism.
Gather your friends and clean up litter in your local park.

None of those require you to be rich. And many don't even require much time or effort.

But you don't want to actually do anything, you just want to gripe about everyone else not doing anything.

I volunteer at the Co-Op once per week. Someone else drives me. I don't have a car, and live in the country. Many of these would be difficult. I'm more of an animal person than anything. You should know this by now from reading my posts.

 

[Second Summer]

I'm more in the middle(as I am with most historical events).

By 'middle', do you mean the mainstream view on that topic?

 

[rainforests1]

Considering the amount of days they have to wear masks to breathe in China, I would say their environmental issues are far worse, not to mention the human rights issue of female infanticide and poor working conditions there as well as in India. There are many countries in Asia that have zero animal welfare laws.

The United States has played a large role in the human population today being so large. A lot more meat because of that. The worst factory farms in the world, along with the other problems(fur, leather, research laboratories, etc.) that would be considered torture. Hard to beat. We may be better towards cats and dogs than some countries, but as far as other animals go no way.

 

[rainforests1]

By 'middle', do you mean the mainstream view on that topic?

I just simply don't know the exact suffering that went on. I feel this way about every war we've been in. There's things I'd love to believe, but it doesn't make it true. With factory farms everything I've read about them is consistent, so I assume it's true. With human history there's usually at least two different claims being made. I'd hate to be the type who picks and chooses as most humans do.

 

[Andy_T]

Rainforests comparing the current US government with that of Nazi Germany.

Human rights:a lot we don't know, so it's hard to judge.
Human rights may(or may not) help us, but taking the first two into consideration it's hard for me to see any other government as the worst.

So, what you are saying is, we don't know enough about possible human rights problems perpetrated by the current US government to judge whether they do/did worse things than killing 6 million people and start a global war?

That kind of renders me speechless (does not happen often, I must say).

 

[AeryFairy]

So, what you are saying is, we don't know enough about possible human rights problems perpetrated by the current US government to judge whether they do/did worse things than killing 6 million people and start a global war?

That kind of renders me speechless (does not happen often, I must say).

6 million Jewish people. A hell of a lot more in total.

 

[Second Summer]

6 million Jewish people. A hell of a lot more in total.

Indeed. There was also several million Soviet POWs, Slavs and around 1 million Romas that were deliberately murdered just for their ethnicity, in addition to people murdered for their political and religious affiliation, and for being gay or lesbian, and for being mentally handicapped. Estimates vary, but there were probably more non-Jewish than Jewish victims of the extermination policies.

 

[shyvas]

60 million.

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Second Summer]

60 million.

World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is an estimate for the total number of casualties in the war, though. I'm not sure it would be correct to blame all those casualties on Germany alone. The other Axis Powers and the Allies would have to take their part of the blame. However, the blame for the extermination policies and their implementation can be more fairly attributed exclusively to Nazi Germany.

 

[Calliegirl]

It has surprised me to learn that there really are people who believe the Holocaust never happened. I've heard of deniers, but I always assumed they were white supremacists or skinheads who said that in a juvenile attempt to upset people, not because they actually believed it.
Oh well, live and learn.

 

[Mischief]

The figure I most commonly see for those targeted for extermination other than Jews (Romani and other ethnic groups, the disabled, leftists, various religious groups, dissidents, homosexuals, etc.) is 11 million. So, about 17 million total.

 

[Mischief]

It has surprised me to learn that there really are people who believe the Holocaust never happened. I've heard of deniers, but I always assumed they were white supremacists or skinheads who said that in a juvenile attempt to upset people, not because they actually believed it.
Oh well, live and learn.

There are also those who argue vehemently that fewer than 6 million Jews were murdered, as though it wouldn't be an attempted genocide if say, "only" 3 million had been successfully murdered.

I don't understand the minds of such people. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a survivor of such horror, only to have people deny that it ever happened.

 

[Calliegirl]

I don't understand the minds of such people. I can't imagine what it would be like to be a survivor of such horror, only to have people deny that it ever happened.

One of the children my dad escaped with was Bill Graham (his American name), who became a famous rock concert promoter. At his concerts there were always huge barrels full of apples for the concert goers to help themselves to. No one could ever figure out why he put out the apples and never asked. Recently they held a retrospective on his life and interviewed my dad regarding their time in Germany and the escape. That's when it came out that they used to go to the nearby apple orchards and bring back as many apples as they could carry for all the children, that was often the only food they had to eat. It's interesting how things from your childhood influence your adult life in unusual ways.

 

[Andy_T]

Yes, I was specifically referring to the 6 million Jewish victims of the Nazi empire, that were killed for the sake of killing them, which is commonly seen as the most Horrible crime that Hitler was responsible for.

There were a lot more victims in the war started by Nazi Germany, but well, starting wars has always been a pastime of rulers of various empires throughout history. And often, the victorious party was later accepted by history.

 

[AeryFairy]

Yes, I was specifically referring to the 6 million Jewish victims of the Nazi empire, that were killed for the sake of killing them, which is commonly seen as the most Horrible crime that Hitler was responsible for.

His hatred for other groups such as LGBT people, the disabled, and the Rromani was an equally horrible crime, and they were also victims of the Holocaust (rather than war casualties).

It's important to focus on the Jewish victims and the anti-semitism which was rampant at that time, of course. But it is equally important to remember and acknowledge others who were straight up murdered just for existing as a minority.