US Guns in the U.S.

[Mischief]

Here are the names of the people murdered in mass shootings in the U.S. since 1982: Here Are The Names of 630 Mass Shooting Victims

 

[Blues]

Also interesting....

I bought an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle in Philly in 7 minutes

We had a guy flip out and went on a mass killing spree about 26 years ago with one of those and a "type 56 assault rifle " plus some other rifles .
The government of the day just banned them.

A few die hard gun people were up in arms about it and low and behold they flew some guy over from the NRA to preach to the county about the merits of these sorts of guns and how they should not be banned .
Really ...it was the wrong time
wrong person
wrong country
wrong reasoning.

The minster of police of the time went on TV , quoted the gun deaths statistics of the NRA guy from his city in the USA (they were horrific) and told him to "Bugger of back home" while we sort through our situation .

We never heard from him again .

As I have said before, I don't think the carnage would be much different here if we had the same gun laws as the USA.

To get a gun licence here, it takes about 3/6 months . They have trained specialists contracted to the police that go out and interview everyone around you . Partners , employers , relatives , friends .
The slightest chink in the interview and they normally turn you down .

 

[Mischief]

Ohio gun shop owner killed during concealed carry class | Fox News

 

[FortyTwo]

Ohio gun shop owner killed during concealed carry class | Fox News

Why did I read the comments!? That's a bad idea anywhere, but Fox News? Come on.

 

[Andy_T]

Regardless how police behave, I do not think it is a good idea that people have nearly unrestricted access to firearms. And I am not just concerned about mass shootings and automatic weapons, but about the everyday violence and accidents occurring.

I am even quite concerned about suicides committed by gun owners.
Let's face it, if you have a "cool" and easy way to end your life as a gun owner, it is possible that a bout of depression that might just pass by can end your life. Happens often enough, unfortunately.

 

[Moll Flanders]

To get a gun licence here, it takes about 3/6 months . They have trained specialists contracted to the police that go out and interview everyone around you . Partners , employers , relatives , friends .
The slightest chink in the interview and they normally turn you down .

I saw someone in an interview the other day saying that is what he thought should happen in the US, put lots of red tape and paperwork in the way so people can't access weapons so easily.

(I think it was the former adviser to George W Bush in the interview.)

 

[ledboots]

I saw someone in an interview the other day saying that is what he thought should happen in the US, put lots of red tape and paperwork in the way so people can't access weapons so easily.

(I think it was the former adviser to George W Bush in the interview.)

I don't think trying to get around the law by smothering citizens in red tape is ever advisable, not even counting what a waste of money and resources it is.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I watched some of it again as I thought I might have remembered it wrong, he was called David Frum. I'm not sure if people can see BBC iPlayer in other countries. I didn't particularly agree with some of what he was saying, but he thought that more delays in getting guns could 'weed out the people who aren't good at life' as he put it. He thinks there should be a delay between the time you want a gun and the time you are able to get one, but he thinks the determined mass murderer won't be stopped by a ban on certain guns.

BBC iPlayer - HARDtalk - David Frum, Former Speechwriter for US President George W Bush

I don't think trying to get around the law by smothering citizens in red tape is ever advisable, not even counting what a waste of money and resources it is.

What do you think should be done, if anything? I don't understand what you think would help.

 

[ledboots]

I watched some of it again as I thought I might have remembered it wrong, he was called David Frum. I'm not sure if people can see BBC iPlayer in other countries. I didn't particularly agree with some of what he was saying, but he thought that more delays in getting guns could 'weed out the people who aren't good at life' as he put it. He thinks there should be a delay between the time you want a gun and the time you are able to get one, but he thinks the determined mass murderer won't be stopped by a ban on certain guns.

BBC iPlayer - HARDtalk - David Frum, Former Speechwriter for US President George W Bush



What do you think should be done, if anything? I don't understand what you think would help.

I think that slowing down the process of buying legal weapons by governmental red tape is skirting the law.

I absolutely do not think that banning one kind of gun is going to make one bit of difference. It will make people feel better temporarily, like they did something, but with 300 million guns owned by citizens, it is ridiculous to think that anyone crazy and determined enough to stage a terrorist attack and mass murder scene will decide against it because he can't get the cool looking rifle.

He can still get wooden rifles, with larger ammunition in them, handguns, he can make a bomb, etc.

 

[Calliegirl]

I think that slowing down the process of buying legal weapons by governmental red tape is skirting the law.

I absolutely do not think that banning one kind of gun is going to make one bit of difference. It will make people feel better temporarily, like they did something, but with 300 million guns owned by citizens, it is ridiculous to think that anyone crazy and determined enough to stage a terrorist attack and mass murder scene will decide against it because he can't get the cool looking rifle.

He can still get wooden rifles, with larger ammunition in them, handguns, he can make a bomb, etc.

What law? How would expanding the background check be getting around the law?

 

[ledboots]

What law? How would expanding the background check be getting around the law?

It was suggested that the government slow the process of people legally buying weapons by adding red tape and extra paperwork for the sole purpose of delaying the person receiving the gun they purchased. That is getting around the law, and wasting taxpayer money by having more paperwork and government employees carrying out this scam.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I think that slowing down the process of buying legal weapons by governmental red tape is skirting the law.

I absolutely do not think that banning one kind of gun is going to make one bit of difference. It will make people feel better temporarily, like they did something, but with 300 million guns owned by citizens, it is ridiculous to think that anyone crazy and determined enough to stage a terrorist attack and mass murder scene will decide against it because he can't get the cool looking rifle.

He can still get wooden rifles, with larger ammunition in them, handguns, he can make a bomb, etc.

But, what do you think should be done? You have just said that you disagree with gun control. It's fine if you do by the way, I just don't understand what the alternative arguments are. What can be done to stop so many people being killed by guns?

 

[beancounter]

A long but interesting article on the history of gun ownership, the industry, and the NRA.

How Fear Helps the Gun Business

 

[Blues]

I saw someone in an interview the other day saying that is what he thought should happen in the US, put lots of red tape and paperwork in the way so people can't access weapons so easily.

(I think it was the former adviser to George W Bush in the interview.)

I don't think the purpose is to put in place red tape , all though , it might appear that way . Its more an assessment of the persons make up and their associations . Is he/she a violent person ( he might have no convictions for violence but still be a violent person .Is he/she suicidal , are they alcoholics/ drug addicts do they have gang affiliations . Do they have mental problems.

And I dare say , a stack of other reason that I don't know about .

A few years they interviewed American who shifted here and purchased a farm and he want to buy a gun ....he couldn't believe the process (It took 6 months ) before the licence was issued . He said as frustrating as it was compared to the US , it was what he liked about the place .

 

[Calliegirl]

I don't think the purpose is to put in place red tape , all though , it might appear that way . Its more an assessment of the persons make up and their associations . Is he/she a violent person ( he might have no convictions for violence but still be a violent person .Is he/she suicidal , are they alcoholics/ drug addicts do they have gang affiliations . Do they have mental problems.

And I dare say , a stack of other reason that I don't know about .

A few years they interviewed American who shifted here and purchased a farm and he want to buy a gun ....he couldn't believe the process (It took 6 months ) before the licence was issued . He said as frustrating as it was compared to the US , it was what he liked about the place .

That's the very least they should do, considering the person is buying an object whose sole purpose is to kill.

Yes, people can always buy something on the black market, but that doesn't mean background checks don't help. Not everyone has the money or connections to buy a gun from a criminal, or would even want to be around that type of person.

That excuse can be used about anything. Why have an age limit on alcohol and tobacco, minors will still find a way to drink and smoke? Why make people get drivers licenses when people will drive without them? Just because someone can find a way around a law doesn't mean we shouldn't have them (unless you're a libertarian ).

 

[Andy_T]

It was suggested that the government slow the process of people legally buying weapons by adding red tape and extra paperwork for the sole purpose of delaying the person receiving the gun they purchased.

It is referred to as "Cooling-Off-Period" for a reason. The idea is that if somebody is irate about something happening to him (finding out about cheating spouse, getting mortally insulted by neighbour) and they do not already happen to have a gun in their nightstand that they can grab to avenge that insult immediately, at least they should not be able to get in the car, go to the next gun shop, buy a gun there and use it immediately.

 

[Andy_T]

 

[ledboots]

It is referred to as "Cooling-Off-Period" for a reason. The idea is that if somebody is irate about something happening to him (finding out about cheating spouse, getting mortally insulted by neighbour) and they do not already happen to have a gun in their nightstand that they can grab to avenge that insult immediately, at least they should not be able to get in the car, go to the next gun shop, buy a gun there and use it immediately.

Then, fine, pass a law. (There is already a cooling off period for some weapons by law, btw).

What should not be done is to subvert the law by deliberately slowing down the process of obtaining a weapon. Pass a cooling off law if one is wanted.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I don't think the purpose is to put in place red tape , all though , it might appear that way . Its more an assessment of the persons make up and their associations . Is he/she a violent person ( he might have no convictions for violence but still be a violent person .Is he/she suicidal , are they alcoholics/ drug addicts do they have gang affiliations . Do they have mental problems.

Sounds completely sensible to me.

That's the very least they should do, considering the person is buying an object whose sole purpose is to kill.

Yes, people can always buy something on the black market, but that doesn't mean background checks don't help. Not everyone has the money or connections to buy a gun from a criminal, or would even want to be around that type of person.

That excuse can be used about anything. Why have an age limit on alcohol and tobacco, minors will still find a way to drink and smoke? Why make people get drivers licenses when people will drive without them? Just because someone can find a way around a law doesn't mean we shouldn't have them (unless you're a libertarian ).

Yes, the man being interviewed compared it to automobile fatalities and how the government have managed to bring down the number of deaths over the years with added safety factors. I bet you don't get many people raging against using seat belts in their car.

 

[Andy_T]

I bet you don't get many people raging against using seat belts in their car.

Well, you'd be surprised....

one example ... The Fraud of Seat-Belt Laws

Loss of Freedom
While the hundreds of millions of dollars spent in support of seat-belt laws has been a horrendous financial burden to society, the greatest cost is really not money. It’s the loss of freedom. Seat-belt laws infringe a person’s rights as guaranteed in the Fourth, Fifth, and the Ninth Amendments, and the civil rights section of the Fourteenth Amendment. Such laws are an unwarranted intrusion by government into the personal lives of citizens; they deny through prior restraint the right to determine one’s own individual personal health-care standard.

(emphasis put by me)

Spoiler: not surprisingly ...

that particular group is also against gun laws