Heartfelt Covid-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Lou]

OH, wait

I did a little more googling.

Pfizer and Moderna did not skip animal trials

CLAIM: The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are mRNAs vaccines that skipped animal trials because using mRNA vaccines on animals triggers dangerous inflammation...

apnews.com

 

[Danielle]

I haven't got a vaccine since high school but covid scares me so I got it

 

[Second Summer]

MOD POST
Just wanted to point out that the OP makes clear the topic is about covid-19 vaccine hesitation because of vegan/ethical concerns, and not a general pro/anti vaccine discussion. There were some posts earlier in the thread that went a bit off-topic in that regard and threatened to derail the thread, but the thread appears to have miraculously recovered.

 

[Second Summer]

MOD POST 2
While I consider most parts of JD's posts in this thread, and the responses to them, to be off-topic for the reasons I stated in my previous post, I feel it's my responsibility as the forum admin to point out that vaccinations have saved millions of human lives. Also, I for one am not swayed by appeal to medical authority-style arguments when that "authority" is apparently a believer in homeopathy (see post #4).

 

[Rosie Dreamer]

Unpopular opinion: i think that it would be good if animal labs are abolished altogether. We have done hundreds of years of animal testing now so why keep doing it? im sure there is enough knowledge amassed now and enough is enough in my opinion,

Have you watched Test Subjects?

It is a short film and it’s beautifully made.

 

[Peace and happiness]

No one is actually completely free from causing suffering to others. I mean, every time you drive your car, imagine how many insects are killed. Even walking down the street, you are sure to step on something and kill it.
Also, the fruits and vegetables we eat often require the death of insects and bugs in the growing and harvesting process. What's more important is your state of mind and volition. If you do things with a pure heart and not intending to cause suffering or kill other beings, you are being moral.

 

[David3]

I wouldn't even worry about getting a vaccine if you're healthy with sufficient fat soluble vitamin intake and your blood type is either B or O because these blood types have innate immunity with their Anti-A isoantibodies.

.
Your claim is exaggerated.

Per Dr. Francis Collins, Director of the U.S. National Institutes of Health (nih.gov):

"The two stretches of DNA implicated as harboring risks for severe COVID-19 are known to carry some intriguing genes, including one that determines blood type and others that play various roles in the immune system. In fact, the findings suggest that people with blood type A face a 50 percent greater risk of needing oxygen support or a ventilator should they become infected with the novel coronavirus. In contrast, people with blood type O appear to have about a 50 percent reduced risk of severe COVID-19."

Link: Genes, Blood Type Tied to Risk of Severe COVID-19

 

[David3]

Vitamin B3 'helps kill superbugs' - Vitamin B3 'helps kill superbugs'.

Please note that NR(nicotinamide riboside), NMN(nicotinamide mononucleotide) and any other Vitamin B3 derivatives are NOT antiviral.

.
Why are you even bringing up vitamin B3 if it's not an antiviral? We're talking about COVID-19, here. Your cited article discusses the use of vitamin B3 against bacterial infections, not viruses.
.

 

[David3]

More evidence on the antiviral effects of Nicotinamide.

One of the notable genes in humans identified is BST2, which the study calls "a potent inhibitor of SARS-CoV-2 replication." And expression of this gene was found to reduce replication of the virus by 53 per cent and reduce the viral release by 74 per cent when compared to control cells.
U.S. study identifies the genes that fight coronavirus infections
Functional landscape of SARS-CoV-2 cellular restriction

Niacinamide upregulates BST2.

.
Provide evidence, from a reputable source, that niacinamide upregulates gene BST2.
.

 

[Tom L.]

"Fortunately the guys who defined the word vegan..."

Please Lou define it for yourself. Our personal philosophy must be one we decide upon for ourself and we owe nothing to anybody in the past, present or future to allow them to define our use of language.

(I have not quoted @Jeremy Delvarr 's full post...)

It seems like I am spending to much time on the definition of a vegan lately.
but I don't call myself an ethical vegan either. All vegans are ethical vegans so the ethical part is just redundant.

The word was coined in the 1940s. but the concept is much older. although the word was coined in the 1940s, the definition of that word has steadily evolved. At first it was essentially a diet. but by the 50s it had expanded to not exploiting animals at all. And the vegan society has continuously tweaked the definition. I think the present definition is from the 90s.

I would encourage you not to come up with term for yourself... if no one knows what you are then a label doesn't really serve much purpose. I think its good that the definition of vegan is inclusive, it allows for various degrees....

(... nor @Lou 's full post either.)

Jeremy, unless you're trying to express a concept for which no simple word exists (such as "vegan" before Watson created that word around 1940), it's really a better idea to use a word according to its generally-understood definition. I realize that language evolves; otherwise we'd be writing our posts in proto-Indo-European instead of English (or French- I recently came across some posts in French on this board- but unfortunately, my 3 years of high-school French have long since left me. C'est dommage.).

Another example: words like "cool", "sick", and "gay" have taken on new meanings which they formerly did not have. But for the most part, it's best to have commonly-agreed-upon meanings for words. Otherwise, communication will be almost impossible.

 

[Lou]

it's really a better idea to use a word according to its generally-understood definition.

One of the things I learned in Philosophy 101 is that anytime you have a serious discussion its best to agree on the definition of the terms.
Less serious discussion can just rely on the the general consensus or the dictionary.
but since there are various different dictionary definitions of "vegan" and also maybe not so much of a general consensus, we probably always should start out with a clear understanding of what we mean by vegan.

 

[Tom L.]

I tend to assume people mean the same thing when they use a word- and now that you've got me thinking about it, I realize I probably shouldn't assume any such thing. I think that when I've had serious discussions, they and I usually got around to specifying what we thought a given word meant [strikeout]and proceeded to insult each others' stupidity[/strikeout].

Seriously though, when a discussion gets tangled because of different word definitions, it can be frustrating- especially when some or all parties really care about the topic.

 

[Lou]

I tend to assume people mean the same thing when they use a word- and now that you've got me thinking about it, I realize I probably shouldn't assume any such thing.

yes. look how much time we have spent on defining "vegan".

I think that when I've had serious discussions, they and I usually got around to specifying what we thought a given word meant [strikeout]and proceeded to insult each others' stupidity[/strikeout].

Seriously though, when a discussion gets tangled because of different word definitions, it can be frustrating- especially when some or all parties really care about the topic.

Yeah. I was never on a debate team but I've listened to a few debates. There are a couple of very interesting podcasts that use a debate format.
They almost always start by defining terms or agreeing on definitions.

 

[Andy_T]

THIRD TIME LUCKY!!!!

In addition to having received 3 vaccinations, I have just also recovered from my third COVID infection.

At first, it - again - felt just like a very bad cold/flu with lots of caugh, a runny nose, and general weakness.
I then did a COVID test, and, lo and behold, it was positive.

From that moment on, I more or less segregated myself from the rest of my family and humankind and wore an FFP2 mask whenever I left my room.

However, the evening before taking the test, I had fetched my older son from the train station when he returned for the weekend, and we had ridden in the car together for 20 minutes, with me coughing and sneezing. For that very reason, he unfortunately also developed symptoms a few days later and also tested positive for COVID.

To sum it up, none of my 3 infections so far was very severe, and I - so far - did not suffer any long-term negative side effects. So I, personally, still am very grateful for the vaccinations.

 

[Lou]

I have yet to test positive once.
I may have had Covid the very first day of the Lock Down - April 2020. But there weren't any tests back then. My doctor told me to monitor my temperature and call him if it went over 201F. It got that high almost every afternoon. but after a week I was fine and never felt any worse than a bad cold/mild flu. I self quarantined and mostly stayed in bed that week. I Still have no idea if that was Covid or just me. (I had just finished cancer treatments and was pretty weak)

I got all the vaccines. I think I just had my fifth or sixth. And I took all the precautions. Even now I'm still pretty careful. As a side benefit - I haven't had a cold or flu either.

 

[silva]

I have yet to test positive once.
I may have had Covid the very first day of the Lock Down - April 2020. But there weren't any tests back then. My doctor told me to monitor my temperature and call him if it went over 201F. It got that high almost every afternoon. but after a week I was fine and never felt any worse than a bad cold/mild flu. I self quarantined and mostly stayed in bed that week. I Still have no idea if that was Covid or just me. (I had just finished cancer treatments and was pretty weak)

I got all the vaccines. I think I just had my fifth or sixth. And I took all the precautions. Even now I'm still pretty careful. As a side benefit - I haven't had a cold or flu either.

You meant to say 101 F . Hard to call if it went higher!

 

[Lou]

You meant to say 101 F . Hard to call if it went higher!

oh yes. thanks.

 

[Tom L.]

You meant to say 101 F . Hard to call if it went higher!

oh yes. thanks.

Cue Foreigner:

"HOT BLOODED... check it and see.... GOT A FEVER of 203 (minus 2)..."

 

[Tom L.]

I got a Covid-19 vaccination yesterday at my general checkup. I dithered about it a bit; I remember wondering why I got the first vaccination back in 2020(?), because I had to wear a mask almost everyplace anyway for quite some time, even after being vaxxed. But my age makes me at relatively high risk for serious illness if I catch it- so I went with getting re-vaccinated. My original immunization was the two-shot Moderna preparation (and it was with the same doctor's office), but they were going with Pfizer this time around. The injection site is a bit sore, but that's to be expected.