Huge fight with non-vegan bf?

[Samshine]

I always think to myself, what if he gave me a hard time about not eating meat/dairy and insisted that I change because he thinks I should? I would resent him and would dig my heels in for sure.

I needed to read that! I've been getting so wound up at my husband and its really not very fair on him. Hoping in time he'll eat less meat.

 

[VjohnV]

I believe that in the end everything works out, not for the better or for the worst, but, it works out as it should work out..
He could go vegan, and he could not go vegan, there is no way to know..

Maybe you will split up, and then a year later you will find out that he is vegan and in a relationship, how would you feel then?

On the other hand, you could be with him for 5 more years and he wouldn't budge any further, how would you feel then?

You cant really know the answer to either of those questions, we live in the present, in this moment, and at this moment you love him and want to be with him, regardless of him being vegan or not, but you wish he would go vegan, so you could try slowly adding in more and more "rules", no cooking non-vegan, no bringing meat in the house, then no bringing dairy in the house, then no bringing anything non-vegan in the house, maybe taking him to events and protests, etc..

 

[Plant Muncher]

I think this question has been completely answered for the original poster and that she has probably resolved the issue one way or the other at this point. I hope so anyway.

The broader question posed here is I think whether you should try and change someone else based on your beliefs. I liken a vegan trying to force change on someone else to a 65-year old male that doesn't believe in abortion and feels that his beliefs should dictate others behaviors. He will never have to make the decision whether to have an abortion or not but he is completely willing to make that decision for all women.

Anyone here who has paid any attention to my posts knows that while I am committed to a vegan lifestyle for myself, I would never impose my beliefs on others to the point that I will cook meat for my children when they come home. I don't eat it, but I will cook it for others occasionally if they ask.

Regardless of how this BF situation plays out or has played out, given my attitudes, I have to wonder which individual dodged a bullet here?

 

[Danur]

I have been a vegan/ vegeterian all my life.

Hey guys

I'm new to this forum and could use some advice. So my bf and I have been together almost a year and friends before that for two years. We have a great relationship and he treats me really well. The thing is he isn't vegan and I am.

Tonight we watched around half of the earthlings documentary. Yes, I was hoping he would consider slowly going vegan or at least partly. I've always tried to not be pushy or preachy about veganism and respect his choices. However, after the documentarry he said he already saw part of it a few years ago and he is still going to eat meat and cheese. Well as much as I tried to stay calm I couldn't. I pretty much blew up on him and yelled how he couldn't even try slowly cutting out animal products. Well long story short he is now sleeping on the couch. We fight very rarely and never this bad. I love him sooo much but I can't understand for the life of me how he can't even try. He said he already eats much less meat and not much milk. That's true but he still eat enough. At the same time I don't want to be a hypocrite. I actually fell of the vegan-wagon for a while, which I regret a lot. I was really depressed and couldn't deal with life, and pretty much stopped caring about my life. Not that that is an excuse. I don't know what to do. I love him sooo much and I hate fighting. It is stressing me out so much but at the same time I feel really resentful towards him.

He is a great guy in other areas of life. He loves our cat and he did say he doesn't like how the animals are treated but he likes meat and animal products and it's too hard. I cook him vegan food all the time and he likes it. I just don't understand how someone can't even try and cut out animal products.

If you read this far thanks any similar stories and/or advice?

 

[Plant Muncher]

I have been a vegan/ vegeterian all my life.

QUOTE="Mona, post: 5746, member: 1531"]Hey guys

I'm new to this forum and could use some advice. So my bf and I have been together almost a year and friends before that for two years. We have a great relationship and he treats me really well. The thing is he isn't vegan and I am.

Tonight we watched around half of the earthlings documentary. Yes, I was hoping he would consider slowly going vegan or at least partly. I've always tried to not be pushy or preachy about veganism and respect his choices. However, after the documentarry he said he already saw part of it a few years ago and he is still going to eat meat and cheese. Well as much as I tried to stay calm I couldn't. I pretty much blew up on him and yelled how he couldn't even try slowly cutting out animal products. Well long story short he is now sleeping on the couch. We fight very rarely and never this bad. I love him sooo much but I can't understand for the life of me how he can't even try. He said he already eats much less meat and not much milk. That's true but he still eat enough. At the same time I don't want to be a hypocrite. I actually fell of the vegan-wagon for a while, which I regret a lot. I was really depressed and couldn't deal with life, and pretty much stopped caring about my life. Not that that is an excuse. I don't know what to do. I love him sooo much and I hate fighting. It is stressing me out so much but at the same time I feel really resentful towards him.

He is a great guy in other areas of life. He loves our cat and he did say he doesn't like how the animals are treated but he likes meat and animal products and it's too hard. I cook him vegan food all the time and he likes it. I just don't understand how someone can't even try and cut out animal products.

If you read this far thanks any similar stories and/or advice?

There is no perfect guy out there. If there was, someone would already have him. You have to weigh how important your veganism is to you vs. how important your relationship is to you. My wife has been a vegetarian her entire life. She never once pressured me to become vegetarian in 37 years. As it turns out, I do all of the cooking and adjusted over time to cooking vegetarian meals and I would also cook meat for the kids. It worked out fine as we adjusted to each other year after year and our kids developed their own dietary habits along the way. I have one kid that loves steak, one that loves anything I make, and one that doesn't eat meat (although, that was more his girlfriend's doing than his parents). Anyway, I leapfrogged over my wife's diet and became a vegan over a year ago. I ask her and other people not to make accommodations for my preferred diet but some times they can't help themselves and try to serve me chicken which I politely refuse. They're trying. I've said this before and it really makes life so much easier with regard to veganism. Try to be equanimous towards others in your life with regard to your own food choices. It save a ton of aggravation that is inevitable. I actually find humor in some peoples responses to my veganism. Good luck.

 

[poivron]

The broader question posed here is I think whether you should try and change someone else based on your beliefs. I liken a vegan trying to force change on someone else to a 65-year old male that doesn't believe in abortion and feels that his beliefs should dictate others behaviors. He will never have to make the decision whether to have an abortion or not but he is completely willing to make that decision for all women.

Anyone here who has paid any attention to my posts knows that while I am committed to a vegan lifestyle for myself, I would never impose my beliefs on others to the point that I will cook meat for my children when they come home. I don't eat it, but I will cook it for others occasionally if they ask.

I could never bring myself to cook meat for anyone at this point, but I admire your attitude. As much as I understand that it's important to you not to impose your beliefs on anyone, I actually think that this is, ironically, the way to turn the world vegan. People like to make their own choices in matters pertaining to their own lives. Most people react badly when they feel that "choices" are being imposed on them.

What does not help, in my opinion, is the large number of vegans out there for whom veganism is all about feeling morally superior to other humans. Unfortunately, such vegans also tend to be the loudest vegans. Most of them were happily eating meat until not long ago, but now that they're vegan, they're not only better than non-vegans, they are also better than other vegans, who, for one reason or another, are never as vegan as they are. If they were honest with themselves, they would have to admit that they would much rather belong to a tiny group of morally superior people than turn the world vegan, since in a vegan world, they would no longer be special. This attitude, ironically, is un-vegan, since it ultimately hurts animals. And since it's so tempting to feel superior to other people, we all have to watch ourselves as vegans to avoid slipping into this self-defeating pattern.

 

[Plant Muncher]

I could never bring myself to cook meat for anyone at this point, but I admire your attitude. As much as I understand that it's important to you not to impose your beliefs on anyone, I actually think that this is, ironically, the way to turn the world vegan. People like to make their own choices in matters pertaining to their own lives. Most people react badly when they feel that "choices" are being imposed on them.

What does not help, in my opinion, is the large number of vegans out there for whom veganism is all about feeling morally superior to other humans. Unfortunately, such vegans also tend to be the loudest vegans. Most of them were happily eating meat until not long ago, but now that they're vegan, they're not only better than non-vegans, they are also better than other vegans, who, for one reason or another, are never as vegan as they are. If they were honest with themselves, they would have to admit that they would much rather belong to a tiny group of morally superior people than turn the world vegan, since in a vegan world, they would no longer be special. This attitude, ironically, is un-vegan, since it ultimately hurts animals. And since it's so tempting to feel superior to other people, we all have to watch ourselves as vegans to avoid slipping into this self-defeating pattern.

I've met those Vegans too. They do seem to give off that morally superior vibe and they seem to be the stereotypical vegans that so many poke fun at. Unfortunately, people tend to paint all vegans with the same brush.

 

[Deleted member 2819]

I love the passion in this thread. Many good points made as well. I have nothing to add as my opinions have already been expressed by others.

 

[Deleted member 2819]

Yeah whatever. My major is in Environmental Science, Environmental Ed and Interpretation, and on my final presentation half the freaking class wrote on their optional survey they would stop eating meat, eat less meat, stop eating red meat, or reinforce their vegetarianism. You don't know me. I know what I'm doing. The "Onision" style does work. A vegan who goes back to eating meat by being told they aren't a real vegan was never vegan to begin with, they were on a plant-based diet. Thanks for your response, but we don't have time for an excess of passive-aggressive ********. Certainly the passive approach works on a certain type of person, but it does not work on everyone, just as the in your face approach doesn't work on everyone. Grow up.

I've read some of your other posts. Do you have an idea on the difficulty in becoming a Forest Ranger in California or Colorado? Not academically, but an abundance of people trying to get in the field.
Thanks

 

[Plant Muncher]

Vegan Woman Forced Her Fennec Fox To Go Vegan, And Here’s What Happened
1 month ago by Ilona

Fennec foxes eat rodents, insects, birds, rabbits, and eggs, but this one doesn’t. For years, vegan blogger Sonia Sae has been raising her pet fox Jumanji on a vegan diet, and it has developed all sorts of health problems. Recently, however, a few people worked hard to spread the word about this behavior they call abusive, and the internet is infuriated.

According to experts, a fennec’s diet in the wild is comprised of about 90% animals and insects while the remaining 10% consists of various plants they dig up. Naturally, they need a lot of protein when living in captivity as well. Forcing her omnivore Jumanji on a vegan menu only, Sae has probably messed up its entire nutrition. For example, fennecs really need calcium and taurine. The latter is an organic compound that’s widely distributed in animal tissues. Without it, these big-eared creatures will probably develop reproductive and heart problems. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Sae has already admitted that Jumanji is half blind, suffers from spontaneous convulsions and a severe skin condition. However, she refuses the idea that its diet is a cause of these problems. “They use the word ‘abuse’ to describe the act of feeding [it] food that no animal had to die for. Despite the obvious oxymoron, any other non-vegan alternative DOES involve abuse by default,” she said in a Facebook post.

People have already contacted local animal rights authorities and are waiting for their response.

More info: faithfulfoxes.com

 

[Forest Nymph]

I've read some of your other posts. Do you have an idea on the difficulty in becoming a Forest Ranger in California or Colorado? Not academically, but an abundance of people trying to get in the field.
Thanks

It depends on what you want to do. To be in the State Park service as a "tree cop" (law enforcement ranger who has similar duties to a police offer but never handles big cases like murders...more or less lots of environmental, traffic, arson, petty theft and disturbing the peace kinds of violations) in CA you only need pass a test and have good eyesight. I think those jobs are fairly plentiful. Same with anything to do with fire in the state of California (you might want to look at the CALFIRE web site: http://calfire.ca.gov/about/about).

However, if you want to work for the park service as a forest ranger, it might be good to have a background in forestry. You can go to great forestry programs either at the Associate's level at College of the Redwoods or at the Bachelor's level at Humboldt State. Then again if you already have your associate's or bachelor's degree in a different field, especially one of the natural sciences, you can still apply. California prefers that you have an Associate's degree when you apply for these positions, though you could find seasonal work and get your foot in the door with a high school diploma or "some college" plus work experience.

USA Jobs is a good place to apply for federal jobs in Colorado and California that are on the federal level for the National Park Service or Forest Service. Again, if you have any interest in doing law enforcement ranger, a background in military service can also usher your way into those positions, while interpretive positions (like the ones I look at) usually require a bachelor's degree or being currently in college in a relevant bachelor's program.

Best of luck to you. I feel it is a noble field of service, no matter what branch you're interested in, because it is we who ultimately doing the dirty work of protecting the land and/or educating the general public rather than sitting in an office making the laws.

In terms of numbers there are less interpretive ranger jobs and more law enforcement ranger or fire jobs in CA.

 

[Forest Nymph]

Vegan Woman Forced Her Fennec Fox To Go Vegan, And Here’s What Happened
1 month ago by Ilona

Fennec foxes eat rodents, insects, birds, rabbits, and eggs, but this one doesn’t. For years, vegan blogger Sonia Sae has been raising her pet fox Jumanji on a vegan diet, and it has developed all sorts of health problems. Recently, however, a few people worked hard to spread the word about this behavior they call abusive, and the internet is infuriated.

According to experts, a fennec’s diet in the wild is comprised of about 90% animals and insects while the remaining 10% consists of various plants they dig up. Naturally, they need a lot of protein when living in captivity as well. Forcing her omnivore Jumanji on a vegan menu only, Sae has probably messed up its entire nutrition. For example, fennecs really need calcium and taurine. The latter is an organic compound that’s widely distributed in animal tissues. Without it, these big-eared creatures will probably develop reproductive and heart problems. And this is only the tip of the iceberg.

Sae has already admitted that Jumanji is half blind, suffers from spontaneous convulsions and a severe skin condition. However, she refuses the idea that its diet is a cause of these problems. “They use the word ‘abuse’ to describe the act of feeding [it] food that no animal had to die for. Despite the obvious oxymoron, any other non-vegan alternative DOES involve abuse by default,” she said in a Facebook post.

People have already contacted local animal rights authorities and are waiting for their response.

More info: faithfulfoxes.com

What does this post have to with fighting with one's human boyfriend?

 

[spaceboy]

After reading these experiences, I realize wow I had the dream relationship. The only reason I'm telling it here is to ask, am I really the only one who had it this good? In a nutshell, it was a mutual effort to better ourselves and each other. For example, we met when we were both meat eaters. I was the first to go vegetarian, and without my asking she followed suit within a month. Next she went vegan, and since I couldn't argue with the philosophy, I took up the challenge. Then we both decided to go raw vegan and ultimately fruitarian. My point is, shouldn't all relationships built on mutual respect & admiration work this way?

That relationship ended because she decided to follow her career and I mine on opposite ends of the world. But since then I've always expected the same sort of symbiosis in every relationship. It's never been as good as that one, but in all relationships I'm always looking to better myself through the other person and vice versa. I won't question the genuineness of others' love because I know it's a complex thing defined differently for each person. But *ideally* if we're imagining our perfect dream partner? Isn't it someone who respects and admires us so much that they'll strive to keep up? Not just diet but everything that's an improvement... if 1 quits smoking/drinking shouldn't the other try? And not just because they feel forced, but because they feel a connection to the other person which strengthens as they both evolve together?

Well I know it sounds ridiculously idealistic, but I had it once so I know it's possible. And I don't think anyone should settle for any less than they deserve. My broad advice to everyone is, if you believe so strongly in something that it defines who you are, then don't settle for someone who doesn't care enough to try. That might be an indication of many more problems to come.

 

[Plant Muncher]

What does this post have to with fighting with one's human boyfriend?

I suppose the tangential connection might be forcing one's behavior on another individual? It might be that fanatical devotion to an idealistic cause can have unforeseen consequences? It could also be that instinct, nature, and evolution has more sway than a vegan overlord when all is said and done? Or, it might be just a sad story about a poor little fennec fox. Who can tell?

 

[Forest Nymph]

I suppose the tangential connection might be forcing one's behavior on another individual? It might be that fanatical devotion to an idealistic cause can have unforeseen consequences? It could also be that instinct, nature, and evolution has more sway than a vegan overlord when all is said and done? Or, it might be just a sad story about a poor little fennec fox. Who can tell?

Or maybe you're just being a troll who is going completely off topic to mock vegans who prefer to have relationships with other vegans?

 

[Plant Muncher]

Or maybe you're just being a troll who is going completely off topic to mock vegans who prefer to have relationships with other vegans?

Well, let's find out. Are you and BF in question still a couple after all this time?

 

[Nekodaiden]

What does not help, in my opinion, is the large number of vegans out there for whom veganism is all about feeling morally superior to other humans. Unfortunately, such vegans also tend to be the loudest vegans. Most of them were happily eating meat until not long ago, but now that they're vegan, they're not only better than non-vegans, they are also better than other vegans, who, for one reason or another, are never as vegan as they are. If they were honest with themselves, they would have to admit that they would much rather belong to a tiny group of morally superior people than turn the world vegan, since in a vegan world, they would no longer be special. This attitude, ironically, is un-vegan, since it ultimately hurts animals. And since it's so tempting to feel superior to other people, we all have to watch ourselves as vegans to avoid slipping into this self-defeating pattern.

Umm. Do you actually know a "large number of vegans" in real life? People you can see, hear, touch, feel and not simply the click bait on youtube and drama filled scenes of people invading restaurants and finger wagging?

Because I don't. I have met 1 Vegan in my entire life. He made a comment once on what I was eating (a burger, at the time, a long long time ago, when I'd never heard of veganism and never knew people lived/ate this way), and it was just a comment/question on whether I knew the destiny of at least a portion of the meat I was consuming, rotting away until it's finally pushed out. I didn't know how to answer because the question assumed knowledge I wasn't even aware of.

I doubt anyone who goes vegan does so because they want to be part of a small minority in a morally superior position. That in itself suggests they didn't make their decision for logical or ethical reasons, but frivolous ones, ones that can be reversed with just a slight bit of pressure. It's the position of someone who is only in it for the show, the applause of their group and perhaps others who they think will admire them for it. I don't see anyone lasting in such a position, not when the majority of the society in which they live tries to tempt them to do otherwise.

About "feeling superior"...does anyone really like this feeling? The fact is is that not participating in an unnecessary act that is detrimental to yourself, humanity and the world at large DOES make *that decision* a morally superior one. So what? People at large aren't motivated by being "morally superior" to someone else. If they are, it's to cover for something else, and it won't last.

At the same time, making this decision constantly reminds others who have chosen *not* to make it, especially when the facts are presented to them, realize they are purposely making a selfish and detrimental decision for selfish reasons. It's those people that are the "loudest" at "calling out" so called smug vegans because it's their aim to shame them for an ASSUMED MOTIVE that is merely a twisted reflection of their own choices.

 

[Deleted member 2819]

After reading these experiences, I realize wow I had the dream relationship. The only reason I'm telling it here is to ask, am I really the only one who had it this good? In a nutshell, it was a mutual effort to better ourselves and each other. For example, we met when we were both meat eaters. I was the first to go vegetarian, and without my asking she followed suit within a month. Next she went vegan, and since I couldn't argue with the philosophy, I took up the challenge. Then we both decided to go raw vegan and ultimately fruitarian. My point is, shouldn't all relationships built on mutual respect & admiration work this way?

That relationship ended because she decided to follow her career and I mine on opposite ends of the world. But since then I've always expected the same sort of symbiosis in every relationship. It's never been as good as that one, but in all relationships I'm always looking to better myself through the other person and vice versa. I won't question the genuineness of others' love because I know it's a complex thing defined differently for each person. But *ideally* if we're imagining our perfect dream partner? Isn't it someone who respects and admires us so much that they'll strive to keep up? Not just diet but everything that's an improvement... if 1 quits smoking/drinking shouldn't the other try? And not just because they feel forced, but because they feel a connection to the other person which strengthens as they both evolve together?

Well I know it sounds ridiculously idealistic, but I had it once so I know it's possible. And I don't think anyone should settle for any less than they deserve. My broad advice to everyone is, if you believe so strongly in something that it defines who you are, then don't settle for someone who doesn't care enough to try. That might be an indication of many more problems to come.

You nailed it! Also helps me realize, I’ve never had a relationship like this. Not knowing if it will ever happen is saddening. Even though I try not to think about the future.

 

[Plant Muncher]

Umm. Do you actually know a "large number of vegans" in real life? People you can see, hear, touch, feel and not simply the click bait on youtube and drama filled scenes of people invading restaurants and finger wagging?

Because I don't. I have met 1 Vegan in my entire life. He made a comment once on what I was eating (a burger, at the time, a long long time ago, when I'd never heard of veganism and never knew people lived/ate this way), and it was just a comment/question on whether I knew the destiny of at least a portion of the meat I was consuming, rotting away until it's finally pushed out. I didn't know how to answer because the question assumed knowledge I wasn't even aware of.

I doubt anyone who goes vegan does so because they want to be part of a small minority in a morally superior position. That in itself suggests they didn't make their decision for logical or ethical reasons, but frivolous ones, ones that can be reversed with just a slight bit of pressure. It's the position of someone who is only in it for the show, the applause of their group and perhaps others who they think will admire them for it. I don't see anyone lasting in such a position, not when the majority of the society in which they live tries to tempt them to do otherwise.

About "feeling superior"...does anyone really like this feeling? The fact is is that not participating in an unnecessary act that is detrimental to yourself, humanity and the world at large DOES make *that decision* a morally superior one. So what? People at large aren't motivated by being "morally superior" to someone else. If they are, it's to cover for something else, and it won't last.

At the same time, making this decision constantly reminds others who have chosen *not* to make it, especially when the facts are presented to them, realize they are purposely making a selfish and detrimental decision for selfish reasons. It's those people that are the "loudest" at "calling out" so called smug vegans because it's their aim to shame them for an ASSUMED MOTIVE that is merely a twisted reflection of their own choices.

My guess is that you have probably met lots of vegans without knowing it. It's not like it comes up a lot in random conversations. When people happen to find out that I have been a vegan for over a year and a half, they seem shocked to have not known about it. Why should they unless they are cooking me a meal?

If you've never met a vegan that feels morally superior just for being vegan, then you haven't lived. They can be very obnoxious. This doesn't define all vegans of course, but the stereotype comes from someplace. All stereotypes have a grain of truth to them.

My favorite type of vegans are those that do not judge others for their lack of vegan principles. I certainly agree that the world would be better off in so many ways if we all lived a vegan lifestyle but at the same time, that world is simply a fantasy. Being the change you wish to see in others is the honorable path in my opinion.

 

[Nekodaiden]

My guess is that you have probably met lots of vegans without knowing it. It's not like it comes up a lot in random conversations. When people happen to find out that I have been a vegan for over a year and a half, they seem shocked to have not known about it. Why should they unless they are cooking me a meal?

There is a big difference between "met" and "know". Sure, I may pass by vegans on my way to work, or if I'm in town without knowing their choices, but the people I "know", or at least am around to some extent (co-workers, friends, family) you find out pretty quick what kinds of foods they eat. This is simply because most of us eat at least 3 times a day and many if not most animal product consumers are regular daily consumers of animal products in some form.

Your statement seems to fly in the face of your agreement with poivron's previous post which lumps a great deal of people together making assumptions about their motives for choosing to live vegan. Frankly, it's an insult. Both to the people who made that choice and to intelligence. I was born and raised eating meat and dairy. I had good reasons to question it later in life, both from my own experiences, and watching numerous people die early from their food choices. To lump someone such as myself into a category that assumes I made the decision only to be part of some "elite group" is something I'd frankly expect an intellectually dishonest flesh eater to do. Sorry, it's garbage.

If you've never met a vegan that feels morally superior just for being vegan, then you haven't lived. They can be very obnoxious. This doesn't define all vegans of course, but the stereotype comes from someplace. All stereotypes have a grain of truth to them.

Oh really? Thanks for telling me I don't exist or live in a cave. I've honestly known (not just "met") 1 Vegan in my entire life. Hopefully this will change in the future. As for "feeling morally superior" this again suggests a sort of pride or self righteousness. If you are conversing with a rapist in a rapist culture and you have made a choice not to be one, do you feel the need to fall over yourself apologizing for why you are different from them for fear of them disliking you and fear of them labeling you as "morally superior" because you don't act as they do?

Someone will say it's a false comparison. It's not really. The big difference is culture, upbringing and disinformation. Much the way some in some muslim cultures think it's normal to treat women as second class citizens and marry their children off. They are brought up in it so they are blind or semi blind to it.

My favorite type of vegans are those that do not judge others for their lack of vegan principles. I certainly agree that the world would be better off in so many ways if we all lived a vegan lifestyle but at the same time, that world is simply a fantasy. Being the change you wish to see in others is the honorable path in my opinion.

Hmm. The principles of which you speak only come with knowledge. Knowledge of how animals are treated, knowledge of how it's affecting the environment, knowledge of how it affects the human body and even to some extent human psychology. Without that knowledge, people are operating their lives in a void and following tradition, the herd mentality, how they were raised, etc. It is wrong to condemn them in such a context.

It is not wrong to frown on their choice once they know. This is not being "morally superior" or exercising pride or self righteousness, no. It is the natural response and protection of values for oneself by disapproving of the choice of someone who has been made aware and still makes a choice to do harm to themselves, the animals, and the environment.