Completely non-stupid that, I'm afraid.
Vegan ethics are against ALL exploitation of animals.
Is it vegan to have companion animals?
- Thread starter Clueless Git
- Start date
Completely non-stupid that, I'm afraid.
Vegan ethics are against ALL exploitation of animals.
Blobbenstein
.......
I don't think non-medical sterilising of animals is quite vegan...That issue is one of the reasons I probably wouldn't get a pet...amongst other reasons.
This was about how vegans will not take care of their pets in a proper way. And I can't see why what we eat decides if we can take care of a pet or not...
OP
OP
There are two entirely valid points there Mikkel but only one is critical.
At the ownership of animals level all ownership of animals is equaly animal exploitation.
Veganism defines itself as being against ALL forms of animal exploitation?
Ergo all animal owners are animal exploiters and therefore, by definition, cannot be vegan.
Be wary of that one ...
A person who owns an animal can claim to be vegan and can, in all other ways, be vegan.
This is only in the same way that a person who eats fish can claim to be a vegetarian and can, in all other ways, be vegetarian though.
OP
OP
Secondary point ...
This one concerns keeping natural carnivores like cats and dogs and snakes.
A vegan has only two choices there:
1. Choose to exploit other animals to provide the pet it's natural non vegan diet.
2. Deny the pet it's natural non vegan diet.
One is against basic vegan principles the other, denying an own animal it's nature, is both against vegan principles and is indefensibly close to animal abuse.
If a vegan lifstyle makes a person not beeing able to take care of their pets in a proper way, then they shouldn't have pets. I still can't see why a diet makes the difference in the taking care of pets. Not all people with a vegan diet have a vegan lifstyle. 
I guess the difference is there.
I guess the difference is there.
OP
OP
If a vegan lifstyle makes a person not beeing able to take care of their pets in a proper way, then they shouldn't have pets. I still can't see why a diet makes the difference in the taking care of pets. Not all people with a vegan diet have a vegan lifstyle.
Aye, the thing to be wary of there is that, by definition, veganism is an entire lifestyle thing.
I would actualy classify myself as a dietary vegan.
That's a bit like being a toiletries vegan though.
A toiletries vegan being one who enjoys a nice bit of veal and foi-gra but sticks rigidly to his vegan principle of using only animal product free shampoos and soaps.
Well. Then I just have to be a dogowner who doesn't eat meat or something.
So I don't offend anyone. Well. Then I just have to be a dogowner who doesn't eat meat or something.
In my opinion there isn't a perfect answer to the question of companion animals. We as humans have created a situation where there are lots of innocent animals in rescue centres though irresponsible breeding.
Some vegans have companion animals, some do a lot of very worthy animal rescue work, some have rescue animals, some keep animals who can only have a vegan diet, some feed their cats and dogs a vegan diet and some vegans reject everything about the pet industry and will not have companion animals in their homes. There is a bit more information on The Vegan Society page:
Tricky Questions: Companion and working animals - The Vegan Society
OP
OP
Aye,Well. Then I just have to be a dogowner who doesn't eat meat or something.
As Moll said the vegan companion animal conundrum is an imperfect one.
Amongst freinds that not everything can be perfect is one thing.
Amongst 'enemies' who's only goal is to expose even the smallest imperfection with the sole intent of using that to trash your entire agenda it becomes quite a different thing altogether.
Thought on my mind is that we have 99% 'perfect' on our side and should probably never argue over the 1% untill the 99% has been firmly established.
Not having a dig or pop there, Mikkel.
Just that the contents of my head keep leaking out of my ears and dripping onto my keyboard.
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2012
- Reaction score
- 19,521
- Age
- 65
- Location
- I'm liek, in Cali, dude.
- Lifestyle
- Vegetarian
Calliegirl
Forum Legend
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2012
- Reaction score
- 5,816
- Lifestyle
- Vegan
There is no such thing as a dietary vegan. Veganism by it's very definition is a lifestyle. If you don't eat animal products, but use them in other parts of your life, that would make you a vegetarian.
There is nothing wrong with caring for rescued animals. It's our fault they are here, so it's our responsibility to care for them. Now, if you're getting an animal from a breeder (or breeding them yourself), that's a different story. At that point you've turned the animal into a commodity to be bought and sold for profit.
There is nothing wrong with caring for rescued animals. It's our fault they are here, so it's our responsibility to care for them. Now, if you're getting an animal from a breeder (or breeding them yourself), that's a different story. At that point you've turned the animal into a commodity to be bought and sold for profit.
FortyTwo
Custom Title
Sorry guys, looks like I'm not vegan. I buy cat food for my cats. It has the label on it "cat food" and probably a subtitle somewhere on the bag that says, "for cats." But if that doesn't count...
OP
OP
That can never appear logical for as long as there is such a thing as a vegan diet?
Last edited:
If a vegan diet was so bad for dogs, then how could they live until 20 without meat? Wouldn't they die of a nutrient deficiency long before then if it weren't possible?
http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/blog/?p=199
Though, I don't think anyone feeds their snake vegan lol.
Luckily they only have to eat once a week or once every other week
http://www.fredericpatenaude.com/blog/?p=199
Though, I don't think anyone feeds their snake vegan lol.
Luckily they only have to eat once a week or once every other week
Last edited:
OP
OP
I don't think anyone did say a vegan diet was bad for dogs, Danielle.
I did say that say that it was denying a dog it's natural (prefered, given choice) diet, though.
That is simply as true as Harvey Diamond's famous 'You put a baby in a crib with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the rabbit and plays with the apple, I'll buy you a new car.' challenge to omni's.
As in 'You put a dog in a kennel with an apple and a rabbit. If it eats the apple and plays with the rabbit, I'll buy you a new car.' would be a pretty safe bet.
OP
OP
Not so lucky for the 25-50 mice/rats/whatever that every pet snake eats, for the whole of it's life, every single year?
FortyTwo
Custom Title
I'm just going to circumvent this entire argument and say:
No, people should not buy animals from breeders.
Yes, tons of animals in need of care exist right now.
No, denying a hungry animal food is not vegan, even if that animal is a predator.
Yes, it is unfortunate that the dog/cat food industries operate so closely with the byproducts of the meat industry.
No, buying a pet from a breeder and thus encouraging the breeding of that animal in captivity for the purposes of selling more of the animals is not vegan.
Yes, adopting a pet that would not otherwise have a home, even a carnivore, is vegan.
OP
OP
Is that how it works?
You list some ill thought out populisms and an entire argument is circumvented?
