Is it vegan to have companion animals?

[Clueless Git]

In the real world though, there are tonnes of animals that need homes, and if they don't get them they'll be killed.

And if they do get homes they will be replaced by breeders (irresponsible and/or commercial) and abandoners at an exponential rate.

It's a simple 'increase the demand, increase the supply' thing going on there.

 

[Clueless Git]

I don't agree with breeding animals either.

I'm curious ...

If not by breeding, how do you think replacement animals are produced to replace the successfully (i.e. 'rescued') abandoned ones?


A mix of guess work and personal observation alone here; I 'calculate' that around 80% of all abandoned animals are, in relatively short time, replaced.

 

[Clueless Git]

I don't care either, too much hassle. lol

And here's the 'flaw' in the Vegan Societies definition of 'Vegan' ...

"The Society now defines veganism as "...a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

That's a good strong guideline. Intent is clear.

When it comes to finer details, and pet ownership possibly counts as a finer detail, it leaves the definition as wide open as the wide open sea.

 

[Clueless Git]

I'm glad I'm not one of those "vegans" who won't adopt a homeless animal because thrown away lives don't rise to the level of importance of some concept of personal purity.

When I'm not dragging clumps out of her fur with a rusty garden rake my cat is glad I'm not quite one of those vegans too, I like to think.

Quite an old cat now, she is.

I figure I'm 'responsible' for the death of around 20-30 rabbit/chicken/salmon/etc sized animals every year that I've had her.

Chuck in whatever wildlife she kills for amusement; Whatever fates befell her abandoners replacement pets ... It's not an unsubstantial toll.

Definitely I'd have saved more life than I cost if I'd simply taken her in and put a hammer over her head.

 

[beancounter]

One thing I'll say in general. take it as you will.

There is a difference between theory and practice, and there is a difference between idealism and functioning in the real world.

 

[Danielle]

And here's the 'flaw' in the Vegan Societies definition of 'Vegan' ...

"The Society now defines veganism as "...a way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose."

That's a good strong guideline. Intent is clear.

When it comes to finer details, and pet ownership possibly counts as a finer detail, it leaves the definition as wide open as the wide open sea.

Pretty sure animals don't die for bone sugar, but they do for pet food.
Plus sugar is in everything. From ketchup to canned corn, oreos (US version), soda (I am a hopeless soda addict btw) etc. Sure you can say "well give up all processed foods", but how many veg*ns are willing to do that? Not me, that's for sure lol. At least not yet.

 

[Mischief]

And if they do get homes they will be replaced by breeders (irresponsible and/or commercial) and abandoners at an exponential rate.

It's a simple 'increase the demand, increase the supply' thing going on there.

As near as I can make out, you're claiming that, in GB at least, people are abandoning their companion animals because they think there's a demand for homeless animals, and that they are going out to buy more, and then abandoning them in turn, as a sort of public service. Maybe the British actually do think and act in this manner (although I doubt it), but I can tell you for certain that that is not one of the myriad of reasons animals are abandoned in the U.S.

I suspect that if you talked to someone who does actual animal rescue in GB, you'd learn that the British animal abandoners aren't quite as civic minded as you imagine.

 

[Mischief]

When I'm not dragging clumps out of her fur with a rusty garden rake my cat is glad I'm not quite one of those vegans too, I like to think.

Quite an old cat now, she is.

I figure I'm 'responsible' for the death of around 20-30 rabbit/chicken/salmon/etc sized animals every year that I've had her.

Chuck in whatever wildlife she kills for amusement; Whatever fates befell her abandoners replacement pets ... It's not an unsubstantial toll.

Definitely I'd have saved more life than I cost if I'd simply taken her in and put a hammer over her head.

If you have an issue with feeing meat to an obligate carnivore, you should have adopted a rabbit or other homeless herbivore, rather than spending time contemplating smashing the poor cat's skull in with a hammer. Better yet, considering that post, to not have adopted any animal at all.

 

[Clueless Git]

Better yet, considering that post, to not have adopted any animal at all.

Considering every post I have made so far ...

It should be abundantly clear that I think it would be better for animals altogether if no one owned any animals at all.

 

[Mischief]

Considering every post I have made so far ...

It should be abundantly clear that I think it would be better for animals altogether if no one owned any animals at all.

I agree that, in a perfect world, no one should own any animals. In a perfect world, there also wouldn't be many millions of domesticated animals who have been discarded, with no way to fend for themselves.

So, you're talking about something that is not reality.

 

[beancounter]

So, you're talking about something that is not reality.

Yes! See post #45.

 

[Pirate]

It should be abundantly clear that I think it would be better for animals altogether if no one owned any animals at all.

So what are you suggesting? Set fire to every animal shelter?

I agree that, in a perfect world, no one should own any animals. In a perfect world, there also wouldn't be many millions of domesticated animals who have been discarded, with no way to fend for themselves.

So, you're talking about something that is not reality.

Agree 100% with Mischief

A lot of animals have been bred to be dependent on humans. I'm not sure what the solution would be, euthanising all stray animals doesnt seem like much of a solution either :\

 

[Clueless Git]

I agree that, in a perfect world, no one should own any animals. In a perfect world, there also wouldn't be many millions of domesticated animals who have been discarded, with no way to fend for themselves.

So, you're talking about something that is not reality.

In the same way that veganism is not a reality because of all the livestock already in the system, exactly, yes.

 

[Clueless Git]

So what are you suggesting? Set fire to every animal shelter?

A lot of animals have been bred to be dependent on humans. I'm not sure what the solution would be, euthanising all stray animals doesnt seem like much of a solution either :\

This is the same omni "Aha! But then we'd have to kill all the animals already in the chain ..." BS that Mischeif appeared to be arguing.

 

[Moll Flanders]

This is the same omni "Aha! But then we'd have to kill all the animals already in the chain ..." BS that Mischeif appeared to be arguing.

I don't think you should have to provide a solution as a veg/vegan but what do you think should happen to the unwanted pet population?

 

[Wolfie]

So if we should smash carnivorous animals over the head with a hammer, should we also do the same to humans who choose to eat meat? And all the wild critters that eat meat?

This thread just reminds me why prefer to spend my time amongst dogs.

 

[Clueless Git]

I don't think you should have to provide a solution as a veg/vegan but what do you think should happen to the unwanted pet population?

I'm not following the logic here, Moll.

Veg*ans should not have to provide a solution to the problem they recognise but those who recognise a problem with animal ownership in other forms should?

 

[Clueless Git]

This thread just reminds me why prefer to spend my time amongst dogs.

I find their conversation unchallenging myself.

 

[Wolfie]

I find their conversation unchallenging myself.

I find it fascinating.

Plus they don't annoy me.

 

[Amy SF]

When I'm not dragging clumps out of her fur with a rusty garden rake my cat is glad I'm not quite one of those vegans too, I like to think.

Quite an old cat now, she is.

I figure I'm 'responsible' for the death of around 20-30 rabbit/chicken/salmon/etc sized animals every year that I've had her.

Chuck in whatever wildlife she kills for amusement; Whatever fates befell her abandoners replacement pets ... It's not an unsubstantial toll.

Definitely I'd have saved more life than I cost if I'd simply taken her in and put a hammer over her head.

Saying something like this, even if you don't really mean it, is unacceptable on any forum, but definitely on this forum.