This is extremely condescending. I am a Christian because I became convinced that the Christian Gospel was the truth, not because I need an "invisible friend" and "a god who rewards or punishes us according to our behaviour" is a very simplistic and ignorant view of the Christian faith. Jesus died for us, not because we were good, but because we couldn't be good. Anyway, I'm off topic. Apologies to the OP.
Jainism
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I beg to differ. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of religion over the millennia. The Crusades, the conflict in the Middle East, the Troubles, I could go on. Not to mention the cruelty and discrimination -- because of religious beliefs -- to different groups of people, such as gay and trans people.Of course atheists can be crueler than any religious folk.
Torture, cover-ups in China’s camps for Uighurs revealed in new report
Chinese officials spent days burning documents after government information leaked to global media exposed conditions in the camps.www.nbcnews.com
Huckleberry
Forum Practitioner
Let’s remember that many neocon and Zionist warmongers have been entirely secular.
David Ben-Gurion - Celebrity Atheist List
Some imperialists hated all religions. James Mill is an example.
James Mill – The author of British Indophobia and hostility to Orientalism in written form.
Courtesy: https://twitter.com/sheshapatangi1/status/1379636496110481409Heard the name #JamesMill? James Mill's highly influential History of British India(1817), most particularly the long essay
indictales.com
Some of the worst capitalists have been atheists.
Two biographies of Ayn Rand.
Ayn Rand is one of America's great mysteries. She was an amphetamine-addicted author of sub-Dan Brown potboilers, who in her spare time wrote lavish...
And fanatically atheist Marxists have tortured and killed tens of millions and also started wars.
New Report Details Firsthand Accounts Of Torture From Uyghur Muslims In China
NPR's Ailsa Chang speaks with Jonathan Loeb, a senior crisis adviser and the lead author of Amnesty International's new report on the persecution of Uyghurs and other minority groups in Xinjiang.
www.npr.org
League of The Militant Godless | Encyclopedia.com
LEAGUE OF THE MILITANT GODLESS One of the early Soviet regime's most ambitious attempts at social engineering, the League of the Militant Godless (Soyuz voinstvuyushchikh bezbozhnikov ) was also one of its most dismal failures. Founded in 1925 as the League of the Godless, it was one of numerous...
Lenin Paints Himself Black With His Own Words (Published 1996)
Richard Bernstein reviews book The Unknown Lenin: From the Secret Archive, edited by Richard Pipes; Pipes photo (S)
Moreover, some trans activists are appallingly intolerant.
Mother arrested after calling a transgender woman a man
Three officers detained Kate Scottow, 38, at her home in Hitchin, Hertfordshire, before quizzing her at a police station about an argument with Stephanie Hayden on Twitter.
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MOD POST
There have been bad beans in most camps, including atheists. And if there is a hell, I'm sure you will find some atheists there. Also a number of editors and journalists from the British so-called "newspaper" the Daily Mail.
Can we please get back on topic? (Which I understand to be "why not try Jainism?")
If what you have to say doesn't fit with the topic, then please find a more suitable thread or start a new one.
There have been bad beans in most camps, including atheists. And if there is a hell, I'm sure you will find some atheists there. Also a number of editors and journalists from the British so-called "newspaper" the Daily Mail.
Can we please get back on topic? (Which I understand to be "why not try Jainism?")
If what you have to say doesn't fit with the topic, then please find a more suitable thread or start a new one.
This is actually a myth. I'm still trying to find the video I watched but only a tiny percentage of wars were fought in the name of religion and they have more to do with the politics of the bodies involved than what the religions actually teach. Most wars, including the biggest, bloodiest wars, WW1 and WW2, were fought because of secular beliefs, not religious ones. Most people who start wars are atheists. I can't speak for every religion, but those who identify as Christians who are cruel to gay and trans people need to question whether or not they are behaving the way Jesus would wish them to.
Huckleberry
Forum Practitioner
I don’t understand the attitude of people who just dismiss information from the “enemy camp”. Did the article from the Daily Mail contain any factual errors?
Any factual errors here: Fined $55,000 for Calling a Male a Male
Canada is a beautiful country, too bad they don’t value free speech up there.
MOD POST
@Huckleberry The Daily Mail is not just in the "enemy camp". It is intentionally inflammatory, full of sensationalism, outrage and bile. Its reliability is also questionable and therefore it has been banned by the English Wikipedia community as a source. It has a past allegiance to the British Union of Fascists and a history of supporting both Hitler and Mussolini. It has of course also campaigned against women's right to vote.
Again, this thread is not about trans people or whether atheists or religious people are more evil. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
@Huckleberry The Daily Mail is not just in the "enemy camp". It is intentionally inflammatory, full of sensationalism, outrage and bile. Its reliability is also questionable and therefore it has been banned by the English Wikipedia community as a source. It has a past allegiance to the British Union of Fascists and a history of supporting both Hitler and Mussolini. It has of course also campaigned against women's right to vote.
Again, this thread is not about trans people or whether atheists or religious people are more evil. Any further off-topic posts will be deleted.
FredVegrox
Forum Legend
I think more Jains see the truth of the value of lives generally, and I also as Christian say more Christians, and others of other faiths, have a real blind spot, interpreting God's care as only for humans, while scripture passages clearly show God cares for all the creatures, and we are given a conscience to care about undue treatment of animals. Jains have this perspective to show the world, the rest should open their eyes to see.
Find Creation Care Church on Facebook, some few Christians move past that blind spot.
Find Creation Care Church on Facebook, some few Christians move past that blind spot.
Why choose a religion on those grounds or on any grounds at all? Surely people believe things because they can't help believing them and therefore don't have any real choice. Following good principles because they are good principles is a good thing of course, but why religion? Surely that should be based solely on whether or not you think you think it is true?
I am somewhat familiar with Jainism; I think I first found out about it more than two decades ago. I'm also fortunate that there is a small Jain community in my general area, and had a brief phone conversation with their designated contact person within the past few years. I also once corresponded with the founder (and former head) of the American Vegan Society, whom I think was a Jain (but I'm not 100% sure).
I agree with them on many points- especially Ahimsa. However, I think some sects (not the Terapanthi) support voluntary suicide by self-starvation. If someone takes a vow to do this, it is required that this vow be renewed each day. They may choose not to renew the vow and resume taking food or water if they wish.
Also, as I understand it, they do not worship any Creator entity. (While I cannot believe that the Creator, if one exists, would damn or punish someone for a lack of faith or belief, I tend to think it is nihilistic not to reach out to a Creator and try to give them praise and thanks). I'm not 100% certain of any of this, since I don't remember my source of information.
IsGodVegan
Newcomer
You are incorrect. While it is indeed a temple, it is not dedicated to a god. I would highly recommend checking out this website.False.
There are many gods in Jainism.
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Wow, this is a pretty old thread now. I thought it was a new topic.
But, since it exists in the present, I'll just add that I don't need to find a religion to "belong to" to fit my ethics. I've lived a pretty much religion-free life up until now and it's worked out fine. One can live ethically perfectly well without subscribing to a religion. Though I've never really practiced any religion, I remain fascinated by the subject and have read widely on Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Vedanta, Bahá'i, and others (I need to learn more about Judaism). I do love religious architecure, such as cathedrals, mosques, temples, etc. When in Chicago recently, I visited the Bahá'i Temple there, which is an amazing structure worth visiting for its physical presence alone. If we could harness all of the energy that has gone into religion and apply it to building an ethical humanity based purely on our shared humanity alone, we may come close to creating "heaven on earth."
In any case, I don't need a religion to tell me not to eat meat. Or to tell me how to relate to my fellow human beings and non-human animals. I'm also very skeptical about the metaphysical claims of most religions, so those do little for me (I am completely open to any new evidence that may come along, however). I do find Jainism utterly fascinating, though, and I would love to learn more about it.
But, since it exists in the present, I'll just add that I don't need to find a religion to "belong to" to fit my ethics. I've lived a pretty much religion-free life up until now and it's worked out fine. One can live ethically perfectly well without subscribing to a religion. Though I've never really practiced any religion, I remain fascinated by the subject and have read widely on Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, Vedanta, Bahá'i, and others (I need to learn more about Judaism). I do love religious architecure, such as cathedrals, mosques, temples, etc. When in Chicago recently, I visited the Bahá'i Temple there, which is an amazing structure worth visiting for its physical presence alone. If we could harness all of the energy that has gone into religion and apply it to building an ethical humanity based purely on our shared humanity alone, we may come close to creating "heaven on earth."
In any case, I don't need a religion to tell me not to eat meat. Or to tell me how to relate to my fellow human beings and non-human animals. I'm also very skeptical about the metaphysical claims of most religions, so those do little for me (I am completely open to any new evidence that may come along, however). I do find Jainism utterly fascinating, though, and I would love to learn more about it.
Indeed. I'm disappointed.
The very question is bizarre.
Why on earth would anyone want to seek a dogma?
My thoughts, actions, desires and needs are all shaped by millions of years of evolution. My ancestors going back to the sea.
In the last couple of hundred thousand of those years, primitive man started to invent gods and demons and angels and heavens and hells...
Answering questions with "god x must have done it" and later using the threats of eternal punishment and promises of eternal bliss as a kind of free police force.
I have no need of any religion, cult or dogma to help me do what is right, or prevent me doing what is wrong.
But to be fair, Jainism seems pretty peaceful. Definitely one of the better ones.
I think you have a wild strawman view of religion that has no place in reality at all but, hey-ho, I've heard it all so many times. Fundamentalist atheism is so religiously like all other fundamentalist beliefs - we know it all and we will accuse everybody else of being naive, primative, neurotic etc!Indeed. I'm disappointed.
The very question is bizarre.
Why on earth would anyone want to seek a dogma?
My thoughts, actions, desires and needs are all shaped by millions of years of evolution. My ancestors going back to the sea.
In the last couple of hundred thousand of those years, primitive man started to invent gods and demons and angels and heavens and hells...
Answering questions with "god x must have done it" and later using the threats of eternal punishment and promises of eternal bliss as a kind of free police force.
I have no need of any religion, cult or dogma to help me do what is right, or prevent me doing what is wrong.
But to be fair, Jainism seems pretty peaceful. Definitely one of the better ones.
Oh dear.
I don't give 2 hoots about people's mythical beliefs unless they impact me personally. I know how to live an empathetic life without guidance from iron-age ignorance.
99% of the time, religion has zero impact in my life...thank Zeus.
*edit. Also. The word "atheism" shouldn't even exist. Do we have a word for anything else that a person "isn't"?
I'd be an "aAstrologer" for example.
Not being a "theist" is the default...only being changed by the indoctrination of parents and some societies.
I wonder, if we started a remote society, with access only to texts that are agreed as factual, how many Christians or Hindus, or in fact Jains would come of it...My guess. None. They *might* come up with religion...It's certainly a flaw in the human genome, but none would be the same as today.
Hopefully we can grow as a species. Leave behind superstition, and more importantly, exploitation of the weak.
Also,.What exactly was the "strawman" in what I said?
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