Okay. I'll tell you this: If I'm explaining to someone why I live my life the way I do, they can make the decision to change who they are on their own and join me, and take accountability for their actions and how it affects the planet. You can tell someone they're wrong without making them feel bad about it. Screaming and reprimanding people isn't gonna work. It's just gonna make them resent you. You're screaming and reprimanding the wrong people. Instead of screaming and reprimanding normal individuals, go scream at and reprimand the government who's making all of this legal in the first place. I'm not arguing with a stranger online about this when we could be spending our time a whole lot more productively as activists. In fact, I'm never going to bother talking to you again if all you're gonna do is insult me for my views. I apologize for coming off ageist, but since you're older than me, I thought you'd be a whole lot more understanding and polite about this. Instead, when you don't get your way or people don't agree with you, you resort to calling people names and cursing at them. It's a dissapointment. Sorry we couldn't see eye to eye, but I'm not spending anymore time. Good day.
No, Its Really Not About You Being a "Nicer" Vegan
- Thread starter Forest Nymph
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OP
OP
Ok but you're just wrong. Even in addiction - lets say drugs or alcohol - there's a phenomenon which doesn't work and can also be dangerous called "enabling." Enablers imagine that they're loving and kind but enabling stems from a selfish fear of confrontation or being disliked or abandoned by the addict. It hurts everyone around the addict, and can even lead to the addict's death.
In animal product consumption, there's also so many cowardly vegan enablers. The worst ones continue to cook meat for omnis, but the less dangerous ones are literally no help to anyone because their priority is "giving belly rubs" for likes.
There's a huge gray area between cussing people out, attacking co-workers at lunch and being "mean."... and the silliness you advocate. I am an organizer for animal rights activists so I am much more tactful in person. Lol.
OP
OP
In addition to my direct response to @Courtneyvictoria I want to add that there are 40 year+ vegans out there, people who have either learned from trial and error or from devoting their careers to animal rights in some way, and greater minds than the average "namaste N00b vegan" have determined that while various kinds of activism are needed, shaming vegans into preposterous passivity or "niceness" is completely ineffective and wrong. As one intellectual noted in the film The Animal People, our culture romanticizes well-behaved feminists, Martin Luther King Jr. and Ghandi, while conveniently ignoring the necessity of feminists who set people's property on fire, Malcolm X, and violent rebels in India in the success of those related movements.
It's dumb on two levels: both from viewing animal products as addiction OR as viewing it as a social justice movement. Nicey vegans make good PR but they aren't the ones who will ever liberate animals or save our planet.
It's dumb on two levels: both from viewing animal products as addiction OR as viewing it as a social justice movement. Nicey vegans make good PR but they aren't the ones who will ever liberate animals or save our planet.
The Master Of Design
Forum Practitioner
Psychology article states hatred of vegans in America is at least as strong as towards immigrants, and even more so than racism against Blacks.
Root causes include perception of someone who is different being a threat to society, internal conflicts in self when reminded meat comes from animals, and feelings of disgust when thinking about where meat comes from.
Vegetarians are targeted too, but vegans more so.
Why Vegans Make Some People So Uncomfortable and Angry
People are increasingly adopting plant-based diets, but this coincides with increased bias/violence against vegetarians and vegans. What does this tell us about human psychology?www.psychologytoday.com
As I am traveling I have noticed this more and more often. I have also been reading in several newspapers that Vegans are compared to drug addicts... But honestly, I just think people are afraid of change. And most people need to start to believe in a better world. If they did believe they would start making a change, so we need to figure out how to make those people believe again. It all starts with having faith.
Inspiration is the most important thing.
Like most citizens of the United States, my lifestyle does great harm to the environment. The main thing my children will inherit from me is a bunch of toxic waste. Nobody needs to tell me that I am an a$$hole. I figured that out long ago.
Part of being vegan to me is about personal liberation. I am liberated from the meat industry and my wallet thanked me. Certain members of veganforum.org inspire me to embrace minimalism. I am sure that cutting back on my consumption will make me happier in the long run. I will also have a couple of extra bucks in the bank account too.
Like most citizens of the United States, my lifestyle does great harm to the environment. The main thing my children will inherit from me is a bunch of toxic waste. Nobody needs to tell me that I am an a$$hole. I figured that out long ago.
Part of being vegan to me is about personal liberation. I am liberated from the meat industry and my wallet thanked me. Certain members of veganforum.org inspire me to embrace minimalism. I am sure that cutting back on my consumption will make me happier in the long run. I will also have a couple of extra bucks in the bank account too.
I wanna be nice to a carnivore. I will buy us a bunch of the best yogurt, milk, cheese, and ice cream. We will play Xbox all day together in a small room. After a couple of hours, the carnivore will be so impressed with my musical rump and original aromas.
Vegetarian keto diet is not a difficult feat, even if you avoid eggs. I've dated a ballet dancer who is a strict vegetarian (dairy, but no eggs) and at the time was perpetually on a keto diet. It was all going well, except she smelled real strange and sometimes was really sluggish. Frequently, I felt like I was kissing a terminally ill patient. We are still friends.
On topic I'd say that most people will no inconvenience themselves no matter what you do or tell them. It really boils down to making plant-based lifestyle easy, comfortable, affordable and (in some cases most-importantly) hip. Stupid things like Impossible Burgers will probably do more to reduce meat consumption than 50 years of PETA protests. Affordable and pretty fake furs will make real fur obsolete faster than throwing paint on the old ladies that wear fur coats (still, I reserve the right to call them "cunt" to their face when possible).
Freesia
not my business.
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^One of the best ways to win someone over is through their stomachs.. yes this is true. And this is one thing vegan food definitey has on its side... it is so good..
Pumpkin-Spice-Vegan
Newcomer
Lou
Forum Legend
Well, yes. Of course, they do. But to the best of my knowledge, no one is actively hunting us down. We do get some bad press from time to time.
Recently a "vegan influencer" created a video on Animal Lives Matter. I happen to agree with the sentiment 100%. but she got shot down pretty fiercely. the problem wasn't that animal lives don't matter but that the right has adopted the phrase All Lives Matter. This is also true but they say that in a way that implies that Black lives don't matter that much.
Attention White Animal-Rights Activists: “Black Lives Matter” is Not Ours For the Taking
Redirecting the phrase to encompass “all lives,” including animals, is unethical and unsupportive of the racial justice movement. We should be giving “Black Lives Matter” the space to spread its meaningful message.
vegnews.com
Vegan TikToker slammed for ‘animal lives matter’ video - News Break
A vegan TikToker is receiving backlash after posting a video Tuesday animal rights and Black Lives Matter are “all the same fight,” the Evening Standard reports. In her video, Lauren Rebecca Perez said she wished that “more people would connect these two dots… Black lives matter and animal lives...
Peta even caught some flack on their Black Lives Matter commercial. which I thought was totally respectful. do just be careful with this kind of statement.
PETA defends controversial advertisement mocking 'Black Lives Matter'
The ad shows animals from bears to horses taking a knee, ending with an American bald eagle kneeling, before the caption rolls: "Respect is the right of every living being #EndSpeciesism."
www.jpost.com
Pumpkin-Spice-Vegan
Newcomer
Hey, I make jokes sometimesWell, yes. Of course, they do. But to the best of my knowledge, no one is actively hunting us down. We do get some bad press from time to time.
Recently a "vegan influencer" created a video on Animal Lives Matter. I happen to agree with the sentiment 100%. but she got shot down pretty fiercely. the problem wasn't that animal lives don't matter but that the right has adopted the phrase All Lives Matter. This is also true but they say that in a way that implies that Black lives don't matter that much.
Attention White Animal-Rights Activists: “Black Lives Matter” is Not Ours For the Taking
Redirecting the phrase to encompass “all lives,” including animals, is unethical and unsupportive of the racial justice movement. We should be giving “Black Lives Matter” the space to spread its meaningful message.
Vegan TikToker slammed for ‘animal lives matter’ video - News Break
A vegan TikToker is receiving backlash after posting a video Tuesday animal rights and Black Lives Matter are “all the same fight,” the Evening Standard reports. In her video, Lauren Rebecca Perez said she wished that “more people would connect these two dots… Black lives matter and animal lives...www.newsbreak.com
Peta even caught some flack on their Black Lives Matter commercial. which I thought was totally respectful. do just be careful with this kind of statement.
PETA defends controversial advertisement mocking 'Black Lives Matter'
The ad shows animals from bears to horses taking a knee, ending with an American bald eagle kneeling, before the caption rolls: "Respect is the right of every living being #EndSpeciesism."
Racism and discrimination is a two way street. I remember a school where black and white middle school comprised a minority of less than 20%.
This minority of students felt unified by their fear of the dominant group of native spanish speaking students. The dominant group exhibited some of the most extreme racist behavior that I have ever wittnessed.
This behavior was shocking because my prior experience with native spanish speakers was very positive. I loved my grandmother and my father. Native spanish speakers who are absolute strangers fed my family at a Veterans Day parade of all places. Strangers who could hardly speak english babysat my autistic son at the park. I could go on all day long about these random acts of kindness.
This minority of students felt unified by their fear of the dominant group of native spanish speaking students. The dominant group exhibited some of the most extreme racist behavior that I have ever wittnessed.
This behavior was shocking because my prior experience with native spanish speakers was very positive. I loved my grandmother and my father. Native spanish speakers who are absolute strangers fed my family at a Veterans Day parade of all places. Strangers who could hardly speak english babysat my autistic son at the park. I could go on all day long about these random acts of kindness.
Brian W
Conscientious Christian
I am not a coward or an "enabler" I'm simply not so pompous and self-righteous that I have forgotten where I came from and how horribly hard it was for me to give up animal foods. Drug addicts and omnivores alike can't just give up. It takes thought and preparation and it may take years for them to be successful. Taking their drug away from them won't help them give up, it will only make them scream and fight and, if necessary, break a few laws to get what they need. After becoming vegan, I continued to feed my wife animal foods as well as plant foods and eventually, she chose to become vegan and she is doing really well. Also, try to remember, most psychology is speculative at best and there are often many schools of thought on a subject. In my experience, counsellors and psychologists haven't got the faintest clue what makes the client tick because they are far too fond of their own intellectual theories to take seriously anything the client says. Whether "enablers" exist or not is therefore a matter for debate.
Lou
Forum Legend
Your little story reminded me of one. I was being given a tour of a high school. I either never knew or forgot but my guess now is that it was 40% white, 10% Black, 20% Asian, 30% Hispanic. (like most places in the Bay Area) Anyway, a large group of Asian students walked by us on the way to class, and the guy giving me the tour said, "oh, there goes our honor roll". At the time I figured he was speaking literally. I thought he knew the kids or maybe that they were headed in the direction of AP Biology. But later I realized it was just stereotyping.
Hmm. When I started this story I thought it had a point. A Moral to the Story. But now I have no idea.
Well, maybe that BLM has created in many of us a new perspective. A different lens to look out at the world. Making many of us more sensitive to racism.
Just the other day I was watching Enola Homes. I think it took place in the 1890s England (was that Victorian England?) anyway in some of the scenes they had black people and at first I thought that can't be historically correct But then I remembered that England was ahead of the US in abolishing slavery. In fact a black could vote - IF he was a man and if he owned land. Same as for whites. England just had different kinds of inequality. Just like your middle school.
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OP
OP
Yeah so I decided to come back here briefly (after my totally emo meltdown late-night during the apocalypse smoke skies over a month ago, I've been camping since then and trying to manage my mental health better thanks) ...because I found out one of my roommates who I thought was a super-healthy vegan is eating meat.
Not cheese, not eggs, not even fish, but turkey from a local farm. I'm quite sure someone at the ranch told him how humane and environmentally A-OK it was.
I knew he was a traitor all along. He never came to Vegan Club meetings, he never socialized with my vegan friends, except for one. He ate a "perfect" vegan diet - much healthier than my own (in appearance) very low in supplemental foods (for example, mostly eating oats with nut butters and fruit for breakfast and a stir fry or bean dish with veggies for dinner, and the healthiest veggie burgers possible for lunch, except once a week he might have Boca chkn) and regimented. Like, the perfect vegan. But NEVER doing activism.
My experience of "perfect" health vegans on YouTube who do little to no activism is that they start eating meat again. Just found locally farmed dead turkey slices in my refrigerator hiding behind his Ripple milk and lettuce. I KNEW IT.
I should always follow my intuition about people. I get get pooh-poohs and "calm downs" but I had been feeling annoyed with him inside for a while, and was telling myself I was being irrational, he is an excellent roommate, couldn't ask for better if not a partner or a best friend. So what if he wastes toilet paper every single day wiping down the bathroom mirror instead of using a towel. So what if he's extremely passive and never stood up to our old, bad roommate who caused problems until she left the first week of September. Realistically, who could ask for more? No one is perfect! Heaven knows I'm not!
Then I saw the dead turkey slices in the fridge tonight, after living in the same house with this person for the past 1 1/2 years.
I'm stealing his smoked gouda Violife cheez every chance I get. I could forgive vegetarianism, ask kindly about his local pasture-raised eggs or no-kill goat farm cheese. BUT THESE ARE ACTUAL ANIMAL BODIES. If anyone ever wondered why meat bothers me more than milk, this is why. Because I live in a very "humane" and "local" farmed part of rural California where it's actually a lot less violent to be vegetarian, where meat really is the main problem. And he crossed that boundary.
I feel like keeping my secret. I feel like it's leverage against him. I have no desire to confront him, or to tell our REAL vegan (animal rights activist) roommate.
I somehow feel justified in that I had been feeling this ire towards him and now here's proof.
My intuition is sound. I'm going to stop doubting myself.
Not cheese, not eggs, not even fish, but turkey from a local farm. I'm quite sure someone at the ranch told him how humane and environmentally A-OK it was.
I knew he was a traitor all along. He never came to Vegan Club meetings, he never socialized with my vegan friends, except for one. He ate a "perfect" vegan diet - much healthier than my own (in appearance) very low in supplemental foods (for example, mostly eating oats with nut butters and fruit for breakfast and a stir fry or bean dish with veggies for dinner, and the healthiest veggie burgers possible for lunch, except once a week he might have Boca chkn) and regimented. Like, the perfect vegan. But NEVER doing activism.
My experience of "perfect" health vegans on YouTube who do little to no activism is that they start eating meat again. Just found locally farmed dead turkey slices in my refrigerator hiding behind his Ripple milk and lettuce. I KNEW IT.
I should always follow my intuition about people. I get get pooh-poohs and "calm downs" but I had been feeling annoyed with him inside for a while, and was telling myself I was being irrational, he is an excellent roommate, couldn't ask for better if not a partner or a best friend. So what if he wastes toilet paper every single day wiping down the bathroom mirror instead of using a towel. So what if he's extremely passive and never stood up to our old, bad roommate who caused problems until she left the first week of September. Realistically, who could ask for more? No one is perfect! Heaven knows I'm not!
Then I saw the dead turkey slices in the fridge tonight, after living in the same house with this person for the past 1 1/2 years.
I'm stealing his smoked gouda Violife cheez every chance I get. I could forgive vegetarianism, ask kindly about his local pasture-raised eggs or no-kill goat farm cheese. BUT THESE ARE ACTUAL ANIMAL BODIES. If anyone ever wondered why meat bothers me more than milk, this is why. Because I live in a very "humane" and "local" farmed part of rural California where it's actually a lot less violent to be vegetarian, where meat really is the main problem. And he crossed that boundary.
I feel like keeping my secret. I feel like it's leverage against him. I have no desire to confront him, or to tell our REAL vegan (animal rights activist) roommate.
I somehow feel justified in that I had been feeling this ire towards him and now here's proof.
My intuition is sound. I'm going to stop doubting myself.
