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US Politics-2021
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Absolutely depends on perspective. I guarantee we'd argue about what constitutes as individual freedoms
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@anarchist100
That is one way of looking at it.
Another is sacrificing individual freedoms for the common good.
IMHO this has not only become very topical but it is also a good lens for viewing all of The USA's problems.
"We face a choice between a society where people accept modest sacrifices for a common good or a more contentious society where groups selfishly protect their own benefits."
Robert J. Samuelson, Newsweek
The face mask debate has shown a spot light on this as anti-maskers shout about their inidividual rights while disregarding the common good.
the ethics of the common good is also coming up in discussions about business' social responsibilities, environmental pollution, our lack of investment in education, and the problems of crime and poverty.
eschewing meat can be expressed as a common good vs individual rights argument. As illustrated by the Fox News anchors exhorting their right to eat hamburgers no matter what the cost to the environment is. The Democrats are coming for your BBQ!!!!
That is one way of looking at it.
Another is sacrificing individual freedoms for the common good.
IMHO this has not only become very topical but it is also a good lens for viewing all of The USA's problems.
"We face a choice between a society where people accept modest sacrifices for a common good or a more contentious society where groups selfishly protect their own benefits."
Robert J. Samuelson, Newsweek
The face mask debate has shown a spot light on this as anti-maskers shout about their inidividual rights while disregarding the common good.
the ethics of the common good is also coming up in discussions about business' social responsibilities, environmental pollution, our lack of investment in education, and the problems of crime and poverty.
eschewing meat can be expressed as a common good vs individual rights argument. As illustrated by the Fox News anchors exhorting their right to eat hamburgers no matter what the cost to the environment is. The Democrats are coming for your BBQ!!!!
The Common Good vs Individualism
This article looks at societal issues as a result of the lack of interest in the common good of society and the emphasis on individual success.
www.scu.edu
The right wing will fight for peoples right to express themselves in ways that promote hate and division, as well as spread complete fabrications regardless of being proven false. Not surprisingly, they also fight against the teaching of history, that is completely documented, and verified, because it would give credence to those their follows spread hate and division, and fabricate stories about
As for the second amendment, this has been a tool used to control follows. There has never been any real laws either way by either party, yet both make threats about the their opposition, and promises that coincide with their party. The only freedom the second amendment gives anyone is the ability to keep guns, the ability to use them for personal protection has been extremely biased. Need examples?
Oh, and I'm sure you do not agree with me. I feel the republican party is far far worse then the democrats, and I don't have a very good opinion of the democrats
I'm not defending the right, I'm all for both freedom of expression and teaching history.
I say we revise the 2nd amendment in that case.
Really? What about the democratic party do you not like? I have never heard you criticize them.
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Sometimes, the common good outweighs individual freedoms, like wearing a mask or going the speed limit
To a degree, we all relinquish some autonomy by living in an organized society. Political philosophers in the social contract tradition, such as Thomas Hobbes and John Locke, ask us to imagine life before the advent of government. In this fictional “state of nature,” humans would find themselves in a “war of all against all,” to use Hobbes’ famous phrase, as we each compete for survival. The strongest would dominate the less strong and no one but an even stronger person could stop them from taking what they want. Life in these conditions, says Hobbes in an equally famous phrase, would be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.”I was directly responding to your statement:
"I don't think you understand what authoritarianism means, there's nothing authoritarian about freedom of expression, and the right to defend one's self independently of the state."
I was not implying your defense of the right, only your assumption that authoritarianism is defined.
Another example of freedom of expression vs authoritarianism:
Wave Of Bills To Block Trans Athletes Has No Basis In Science, Researcher Says
Legislation in several states would limit or prohibit transgender women from competing in women's athletics. An expert on sex differences in athletes says the bills aren't rooted in science.
www.npr.org
Absolutely agree, however I feel it's a problem only disguised as a "right"
This is the second amendment in action.Hasn't changed much since it's inception:
Police seize firearms from Black men at Virginia rally for gun rights
Police stopped a car of Black men and confiscated two of their guns at Virginia's annual "Lobby Day" on Monday while white gun rights activists defied local laws unimpeded in the state capital of Richmond.
www.reuters.com
The neo-lib democrats have largely been placeholders for the republicans next term. That said, they've still done more for human rights. I haven't needed to criticize them as they've just been so far better than what we've been through. stopping the bleeding is pretty important however it gets done
I support progressives
That's fine for living off grid, the whole primitivism/anarchy life, but when you try and run a country, with it's utilities and roads and schools and....the individuals right to "freedom" is quite disputed. Ones persons freedom often takes from another
The whole world was built on denying individual freedoms
It is. You just never know what might have been, thinking if we haven't been colonized/cilivized
Like, how far would you go? Everything that has really caused change to society has changed the structure of government, which in turn tightens it's hold on it's citizens.
The land was stolen, and ever since it's been the people with the most audacity, and willingness to run over the rights of others in order to strengthen their own. Greed will take freedom every time. The strategy of placing doubt and fear in the minds of the ones with less, is very effective in making others do the dirty work
Jamie in Chile
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beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
And the next time the Republicans control congress, the Democrats are screwed without the filibuster.
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I think that is a legitimate fear. In fact, I think that idea led to the filibuster in the first place: the only way to enact laws that last is by consensus and negotiation.
However the Republicans have been abusing the filibuster for a dozen years. I don't remember the numbers, something like in the first fifty years it was used 10 times. in the last 6 months its been used like 6 times. once every ten years vs ten times a year.
Plus there is an idea that is spreading: the Republicans are no longer interested in negotiating or governing - just obstruction and maintaining power.
Changing the rules may not be a good long term solution. but not doing anything is worse.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
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I guess it depends on what you call a short term fix.
Lets say you come up on a victim for an accident. he has a broken leg. but he is not breathing. CPR is a short term fix.
As far as the rest.... Yes Mithc is a skilled strategist. but his end goal is not governing. its retaining power. The Dems want to govern. Mitch sees that obstructing is the best chance to maintain power. The dems want to govern. (Yes the dems also want to get re-elected - but they see the way to do it is by enacting the laws people want)
Also, as far as Mitches long term strategy. he seems to be very much tied to Trump and the far right base. I don't see that as very smart or sustainable.
From what I gathered from the news yesterday the dems and progressives are going on the offensive. kind of like what happened when the republicans tried to end Obama care. Lots of town halls and marches and stuff.
Jamie in Chile
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This is one of the big problems. Nothing gets done if one side refuses to even come to the table. And when the GOP does, its demands are completely unreasonable most of the time. I don't know what the answer is. The Trump hold on the party is distressing.
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I continue to be intermittently optimistic. In my mind I think the Republicans praying at the Altar of Trump just might turn out to be a good thing. When Trump goes to jail - maybe it just shatters the Republican Party. Even now you can see the cracks forming. Just a little over half of the Republican voters are Trump supporters. Even without Trump going down I can see splinter groups forming. The Senate might be unified behind McConnell right now but I don' t see that being the case in July. Once the Senators go back home and see that they are losing popular support they may realize that McConnell is driving too close to the cliff.
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