Should children always come first?

[Clueless Git]

Just echoing what someone else already said...

IMO, minor children come first, adult children come second.

What about an adult child who was put second whilst he/she was a minor child ..

Should such a child be denied his/her period of being put first simply for the 'crime' of having turned adult?

 

[PTree15]

What a wise and insightful post PTree15 thank you.

I think that your opinion is as valid as anyone's despite the fact you don't have kids. It seems to me that you have had more experience of " jumbled " family dynamics than most! !!!

I think most kids do think that everything is about them because as parents we make the mistake of acting like everything is!

Which of course is fine because they feel special and loved by both parents

Problems arise when stability is shattered and a new partner appears who does not think everything is about them . Suddenly it appears to be about everyone but them.

Lol, thanks, Ann Chovie, and I agree that parents should make their kids feel special. They had them, after all. Still, I think it's important to have a division of sorts, adult time and kids time, for the parents to have time to themselves, just for their own sanity. If you don't, I think you run the risk of creating completely self-absorbed, coddled kids who won't be able to survive in the real world and who will come across as completely selfish.

It's difficult for the person coming into the family. I know when I married, I was really careful about not pushing myself on his kids or trying to force some sort of family dynamic. I felt like I had to tread lightly. At the same time, I was trying to enjoy my husband and start my life with him without interfering in his relationship with his kids but also trying to let them know that I cared about them and all and wanted to be part of their lives. It was not easy, and I realized how hard it must have been for my mom and stepdad to figure out how to handle six kids from two families and still forge ahead with their plans for their own lives/happiness. But a lot about parenthood does involve sacrifice, and I knew kind of what I was getting into given how I'd grown up. We managed to have a lot fun while I was married to their father.

That said, if you choose to have kids, or enter into a relationship with someone who has kids, you have to be willing to sacrifice a lot of your time together for their sake. You have to embrace the dynamic, I guess. It's not all roses, but it is what you make it a lot of the time. And sometimes, a child may never come around (as in my stepsister's case, for example), but you have to at least try and accept the situation for what it is. You can only do your best. That shows your S/O that you at least give a ****.

I think a lot of today's parents (and please don't hate me for stereotyping, y'all; I'm just going by what I've seen in my own family, plus the families of friends) spend so much working outside the home (not that working is a bad a thing, as kids need to learn about responsibility and all, but there needs to be someone home, man or woman, to mind the store, so to speak, while they are in their formative years) that they feel guilty and don't set boundaries with everything from finishing dinner to regular bedtimes to letting them eat/not eat whatever they want to trying to buy them. I know I sound like some old fart, but really, I see so little discipline, structure or real family time. I often wonder why some people have kids if they don't have the means or the time to raise them. I'm not talking about parents who find themselves in dire straits due to illness or death of one of the parents, divorce, etc. Some situations can't be helped.

It's not cheap to raise children, especially in the last few decades when income so has not kept up with the cost of living. Kids need structure and yes, attention. Again, I know I grew up in a different time, and maybe my mom (even when she was single) did better than a lot of mothers, but whatever was going on in our lives, we were to be home (barring extreme circumstances, and maybe a late drama club rehearsal) for dinner every night for 6:30; we talked at the dinner table; we regularly played board games together, hung out together, watched TV together. We didn't need a designated night for "game night" or "family night." Every night was pretty much family night. I don't see that in today's families. I see kids whose every waking moment is organized/choreographed/scheduled, mostly outside the home. There is no decompression time; every moment is accounted for.

I don't know, it's complicated, I guess. As I said, I'm not a parent, but I know if I had kids, I would want to actually spend time with them, teach them, get to know them, nurture them, have fun with them, let them get involved with sports or music or whatever their passion is, discipline/scold them when needed. The biggest thing I notice is that parents don't teach their kids the rules of life. My mom and stepdad must have had a lot patience, as they repeated themselves often in trying to help us become self-sufficient, decent grown-ups. They might sound like cliches and platitudes, but they did sink in...eventually. I'm not saying by any means that my upbringing was perfect, but I did become a decent person/adult, and I'm sure a lot of it had to do with how my folks raised me.

 

[Ann Chovie]

. We hear only what we want to hear, even when we ask for advice.

Took a long hard look at myself today and that is exactly what I have been doing.

. I didn't have choice really because I got dealt two hard blows of cold truth. One from an expected source and one completely from left of field!

I have asked for advice over and over only to sift out the bits that suited me. The bits that sounded difficult or uncomfortable I discounted.

What I heard today is that I miss out the hard bits simply because they are hard. That makes me too selfish,lazy or frightened to tackle them head on. Anyone of those reasons is a bad reason not to confront my demons. And this does not make me proud of myself right now.

Confrontation will require me to have nerves of steel and a disregard of my own immediate happiness in pursuit of the long term happiness of my son. Convincing him that this is the final goal will be harder when to all intents and appearances his world is being blown apart.

I hope later he looks back and understands that I did it because I love him and not because I don't.

 

[Mischief]

. I didn't have choice really because I got dealt two hard blows of cold truth. One from an expected source and one completely from left of field!

Just out of curiosity, is one of those sources CG?

 

[beancounter]

Should such a child be denied his/her period of being put first simply for the 'crime' of having turned adult?

People have to grow up at some point.

 

[Ann Chovie]

Just out of curiosity, is one of those sources CG?

Just out of curiosity why do you ask?

 

[Mischief]

Just out of curiosity why do you ask?

I find human nature fascinating.

 

[Clueless Git]

Just out of curiosity why do you ask?

Curious indeed!

Why would someone who thinks you are me ask if one of two people you received advice from was ... errr ... yourself?????

 

[Mischief]

Curious indeed!

Why would someone who thinks you are me ask if one of two people you received advice from was ... errr ... yourself?????

Well, since you bring it up, I'm perfectly open to the idea that there are two separate people, although I think that you either post under AC's name sometimes, or she has a remarkable facility of sounding exactly like you.

I do think that my original question has been answered.

 

[Clueless Git]

I didn't have choice really because I got dealt two hard blows of cold truth. One from an expected source and one completely from left of field!

'Left of field' is a true Friend.

I'm so confident of that that I'm going to say ignore absolutely anything 'expected source' said that does not tally exactly with anything she said.

 

[Mischief]

As I said before, it's absolutely adorable when a couple uses a message board to have a private conversation with each other.

We should probably put on some romantic music and light some candles for you.

 

[Ann Chovie]

People have to grow up at some point.

Yes they do. Trouble is sometimes its the parent not the child.

Realised that I need to do just that and fast. You see because I have not grown up I shield myself from the turmoil of my sons life . i cannot fix it so like a child i block it out filling my life with people and things as distraction from the reality of my domestuc problem. I avoid confrontation and just hope it will all fix itself.
. my son cannot believe what I say because I do not believe it myself. As I tell him of the changes that are needed and the steps to his recovery my words are hollow to both of us. I don't believe he will follow them or that I will withdraw my support if he doesn't and not does he.

I see now that my dramatic pleas for him to " change he life" are futile. He doesn't know where to start and can't rely on me to pick him up dust him down and set him back on the road again when he falls. He expects him to fail and so do I. He never disappoints. And so we go on year after year.

I was told by an advisor from a mental health charity that he is not my " problem" that he is an adult now . But he is . Our children are the product of what we did or did not do . If I was not an adult then how could he ever learn to be?
I am starting and this time I will not let him down by stopping .

 

[Clueless Git]

I was told by an advisor from a mental health charity that he is not my " problem" that he is an adult now . But he is . Our children are the product of what we did or did not do . If I was not an adult then how could he ever learn to be?

One thing on that ..

The onus to take on adult responsibilities is equal on all adults. That means equal on both you and him.

He has no more valid an excuse to shirk his adult responsibilities by blaming his parent(s) than you have to shirk your adult responsibilities by blaming your parents.

The 'blame the parent' game is one that everyone can play and it only ever leads back to absolutely no one, apart from Adam and Eve, actualy being responsible for anything at all.

 

[yakherder]

If there's a rational reason a choice you make causes a problem, that's one thing. But I wouldn't put my choices to the irrationality of someone's emotional whims whether it were an angry boss or a toddler who lacks the ability to see the bigger picture. There's a difference between taking care of someone and simply submitting to them out of fear of how they and others will judge you.

In other words don't take food out of your kids mouths so you can get a new car, but if they just don't happen to like someone you're friends with, my cold hearted opinion is that they can learn to live with it. Always comply, and they'll just learn to control you.

I'm all about sacrifice if there's a point. But you have to know when to draw the line.

 

[SummerRain]

I think if you choose to have children, they should come first, I think that's pretty much your responsibility as a parent. But I think common sense says that putting your children first doesn't mean giving them everything they want, and it doesn't mean not having a life (or friends, or partner, or career, or education, etc) for yourself. I don't think it's a good thing for children to have unhappy parents, or parents that don't do things they enjoy. I think for different parents/families, putting children first, and having a happy family, will look completely different. So there aren't hard and fast rules, but I think if you know a family - as a friend of the child or as a friend of the parents - you can quite quickly get a sense of whether their children are their priority or not.

 

[Ann Chovie]

Always comply, and they'll just learn to control you.

Exactly what has happened in my house yakherder and thats why it needs to stop.

My biggest regret at present is that I did not deal with this years ago before the dynamic was firmly established as it is now proving much harder to change.

 

[Clueless Git]

Lol, thanks, Ann Chovie, and I agree that parents should make their kids feel special. They had them, after all. Still, I think it's important to have a division of sorts, adult time and kids time, for the parents to have time to themselves, just for their own sanity. If you don't, I think you run the risk of creating completely self-absorbed, coddled kids who won't be able to survive in the real world and who will come across as completely selfish.

Not only, but also ...

You'd be creating kids with no experience of how to divide their own time up when they have kids of their own.

Any 'wholesome' survival strategies we use as parents are not only protecting ourselves but also teaching our kids the lessons they need to survive themselves in the big bad bad world.

Failure strategies exactly the reverse, obviously.

 

[Clueless Git]

But you have to know when to draw the line.

Yes, and move the line back and forward a little bit from time to time without any warning.

Keeps the little beggars on their toes!

 

[Ann Chovie]

Proud of my son this weekend for behaving like an adult . I am hoping that my attempts to act like an adult are rubbing off on him!!

His non-resident sister however, is acting far less adult and I will be talking this through with her later.

Being 55 and of sound mind, body and soul does apparently not give me the right to spend my free time as I wish, with whom I wish, unless she personally consents or approves and I have submitted a permission slip to her in advance.

Putting this one straight should make for an interesting evening..

 

[shyvas]

Proud of my son this weekend for behaving like an adult . I am hoping that my attempts to act like an adult are rubbing off on him!!

His non-resident sister however, is acting far less adult and I will be talking this through with her later.

Being 55 and of sound mind, body and soul does apparently not give me the right to spend my free time as I wish, with whom I wish, unless she personally consents or approves and I have submitted a permission slip to her in advance.

Putting this one straight should make for an interesting evening..

How old is your daughter, Anne ?