Should veganism have the same legal protection as religion?

ledboots said:
RL, I cannot imagine a nurse taking care of oncology patients not being vaccinated against the flu. I don't think it happens. I know in my hospital, all NICU nurses get the shot, and I bet the oncology nurses do, too.
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So if an oncology patient went to the hospital for an infection, they would only be in contact with oncology-specific staff? What if they went for a surgery or unrelated procedure?
Halfway through chemo I was sent to be checked for gastritis/ulcer, and the nurses were not oncology nurses.

I would recommend that any patient ask everyone who is taking care of you to please wash their hands in your presence before they touch you, flu season or no. Doesn't matter if they use gloves, ask them to wash their hands; it is the most important thing. In flu season, ask if they are immunized against the flu. If no, request another nurse or request she don a mask and gloves after washing her hands.
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When I went in for my lumpectomy, the nurse who initially went to start my IV put her gloves on, then touched my shoe, then jabbed me with the needle several times. Without changing her gloves or washing up again.
(Then she had to get another nurse to do the IV further down my arm because she'd missed so many times.)
 
Its nothing like that, dont even try to compare those things...Its saying if you have moral reasons for objecting to having something like a flushot, perhaps a job in caring for the sick, vunerable and dying should not be your first choice.

Its like want to work in McDonalds but not wanting to cook the burgers...
 
Alice-Bee said:
Its nothing like that, dont even try to compare those things...Its saying if you have moral reasons for objecting to having something like a flushot, perhaps a job in caring for the sick, vunerable and dying should not be your first choice.

Its like want to work in McDonalds but not wanting to cook the burgers...
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A lot of people are quitting nursing for all sorts of moral reasons now. I guess the flu shot is now another reason to add as they become mandatory. As they keep adding requirements, they keep losing good nurses, but it is what it is, I guess. I still think receiving the vaccine should be a choice. It isn't like cooking burgers, that is not a potentially harmful substance with egg and mercury injected involuntarily into a body so she can keep her job. According to the American Nurses Association, 85% of RNs are vaccinated against the flu. Fewer than 50% of patient care techs are.
 
Well here's the "official" word from the CDC. I'm pretty sure I received the single dose shot, which they claim doesn't have mercury.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

"The single-dose units are made without thimerosal as a preservative because they are intended to be opened and used only once. Additionally, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine (the nasal spray vaccine), is produced in single-dose units and does not contain thimerosal."
 
beancounter said:
This year, the flu shot is estimated to be 62% effective for adults, so don't do anything too heroic. :p
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My mom got the shot and still got the flu. Her doc told her the severity would be less even if she got the flu. It lasted at least two weeks. I think that's pretty severe. I'm wondering if she got some other version. I did not get/have not ever gotten the shot, and I'm actually sick with the flu right now. It's probably been 10 years since I last had it. I imagine it would be tough decision for health-care professionals who weren't vegan when they began their careers but are now. I'm sure I would have trouble with that decision.
 
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The flu has been going around at my work; at least one person was hospitalized from it. The others who have had it were out a minimum of one full week.
 
RabbitLuvr said:
The flu has been going around at my work; at least one person was hospitalized from it. The others who have had it were out a minimum of one full week.
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Yeah, I doubt I will be going in tomorrow, either. I definitely don't want to end up in the hospital. I'm pretty sure I picked this up in Philly at a concert. One of the friends I went with left halfway through the show after becoming ill. We'd spent all afternoon before the concert hanging out.
 
beancounter said:
Well here's the "official" word from the CDC. I'm pretty sure I received the single dose shot, which they claim doesn't have mercury.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

"The single-dose units are made without thimerosal as a preservative because they are intended to be opened and used only once. Additionally, the live-attenuated version of the vaccine (the nasal spray vaccine), is produced in single-dose units and does not contain thimerosal."
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My hospital uses the multi-dose vials as it is way cheaper, so I got the single dose at my doctor's office.

The nasal spray version is a live virus that can be shed, so I am not allowed to have that unless I want to take two weeks off work, as the newborns could catch the flu by my shedding the virus from the nasal vaccine.
 
To the original question, yes, I think veganism should be protected as long as religion is. I don't have a problem with religion being protected either.

As to mandatory vaccination, I am not comfortable with it at all. I don't care what your profession is. That they aren't vegan is good enough an excuse for a vegan. But any time you get injected with something you are risking your health and life. My grandmother was mistakenly injected with adrenaline and it damaged her heart and led to her premature death. No one should be forced by the government to take on the risk. Surely patients who fear unvaccinated staff can request to be cared for by vaccinated staff only? If they can't I think it would be much better to mandate that they be given that choice, than to force people to get injections against their will.
 
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PTree15 said:
My mom got the shot and still got the flu. Her doc told her the severity would be less even if she got the flu. It lasted at least two weeks. I think that's pretty severe. I'm wondering if she got some other version. I did not get/have not ever gotten the shot, and I'm actually sick with the flu right now. It's probably been 10 years since I last had it. I imagine it would be tough decision for health-care professionals who weren't vegan when they began their careers but are now. I'm sure I would have trouble with that decision.
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There are several strains of flu every winter, and it's impossible (or impractical) to vaccinate against them all. The vaccine is a "best guess" of which strain/s will be the most prevalent, and it protects against those. That it isn't perfect is not a good reason not to get it.
 
Pickle Juice said:
To the original question, yes, I think veganism should be protected as long as religion is. I don't have a problem with religion being protected either.

As to mandatory vaccination, I am not comfortable with it at all. I don't care what your profession is. That they aren't vegan is good enough an excuse for a vegan. But any time you get injected with something you are risking your health and life. My grandmother was mistakenly injected with adrenaline and it damaged her heart and led to her premature death. No one should be forced by the government to take on the risk. Surely patients who fear unvaccinated staff can request to be cared for by vaccinated staff only? If they can't I think it would be much better to mandate that they be given that choice, than to force people to get injections against their will.
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On the basis of what?
 
Envy said:
On the basis of what?
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Well common sense would dictate that any time the skin is pierced and the bloodstream contacted by a foreign object, there is risk.

However, here is a partial list of the risks involved in getting pierced by a needle and/or getting foreign material deposited in your bloodstream:

tiny bubbles in the syringe
contaminated needle (RabbitLuvr posted a good example of how that can happen even in a hospital setting)
the wrong drug in the syringe (as what happened to my grandmother)
fatal anaphylactic reaction to something in the syringe you didn't know you were allergic to til it was too late (like what happens to some people who never wake up from anaesthesia)

I'm not suggesting to people who have been frightened to death of flu by drug companies that these are sufficient reasons to avoid vaccination. Go ahead and get them if you want them. What I am suggesting is that no person is under any obligation to risk their own life or health to soothe the fears of others. Flu vaccines are not vegan, they are not a guarantee that the recipient still won't catch flu or pass it on to other people, and they carry all of the above risks. No one should be forced by the government or any other entity to be vaccinated against their will, regardless of how frivolous their reasons may appear to others. It should remain a completely personal decision.
 
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There are quite a few jobs/professions that circumscribe one's personal choices more than requiring flu shots ever could. In many localities, if you're a police officer, fire fighter, etc., you have to live within the municipal boundaries. As a lawyer, you're required to take on court appointed cases, even if it's in an area of law you've chosen not to practice because you felt ethical qualms about representing certain types of people. Should a teacher who is a firm creationist be allowed to refuse to teach the theory of evolution? A pharmacist refuse to distribute the morning after pill? A police officer refuse to carry a gun? The wide array of workers who are required to take TB tests refuse to take them? (That also breaches the skin.)

I think that, with certain jobs/professions, you're aware (or should be) that you may be required to do things that you would prefer not to do. It's up to you to decide whether it's a dealbreaker.
 
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Lord Snot said:
There are several strains of flu every winter, and it's impossible (or impractical) to vaccinate against them all. The vaccine is a "best guess" of which strain/s will be the most prevalent, and it protects against those. That it isn't perfect is not a good reason not to get it.
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I am well aware of this, hence the example of my mom. I personally would rather not put something in my body that is a "best guess."
 
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beancounter said:
So, as an adult, you've never gotten an injectable of any kind?
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I'm not sure why you quoted the bit you quoted, and asked me this. There is risk whenever foreign material enters the body, no matters what manner of entry it takes. I thought this was common knowledge. It doesn't mean one should fear or avoid eating food, drinking water, having sex, or becoming pregnant. It should just be recognized that there is risk.

Vaccines are not food or water. They are not needed by the body like food, water, or even sex is. They are not as effective as claimed. They carry risk of harm. Those are neutral truths about them, not opinions. The idea that since they are so common that there is no more risk from getting them than there is from breathing is silly, as there is also risk with every breath we take. People seem to be taking it for granted that there is no risk involved, and they seem to think they have a right to force people to have them.

But to answer your question, the only needles I've ever been pierced by were the needle they used to put me under for oral surgery when I was a teenager, and the needles you use to test your blood for cholesterol and blood sugar levels. Oh, and the occasional accidental ***** while sewing.

The above statement you quoted is not why I have never been vaccinated for anything.
 
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