Should vegans avoid avocados and almonds?
- Thread starter Lou
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TofuRobot
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We may have already discussed this to death.
but today my news feeder gave me a new article. Nothing really new in it but I liked the way the author dived deep into ethics.
Anyway, Food For Thought.
Below I will include a link to the article and to some of the other threads that discussed this.
www.sciencealert.com
www.veganforum.org
www.veganforum.org
www.veganforum.org
but today my news feeder gave me a new article. Nothing really new in it but I liked the way the author dived deep into ethics.
Anyway, Food For Thought.
Below I will include a link to the article and to some of the other threads that discussed this.
Should Vegans Avoid Avocados And Almonds? Here's The Science
A video recently doing the rounds on Facebook included a segment from the BBC comedy quiz show QI.
www.sciencealert.com
Avocado's controversy
How do you feel about Avocado's? According to the BBC they aren't vegan because bee's are needed to produce the fruit/vegetable though having done a little research it seems that bee's are needed for a lot of other produce... Personally my opinion is if it grows on a plant then it's vegan though...
www.veganforum.org
Vegantiarian - sufficiently vegan?
Hi All, With this recent media scare about avocados not being vegan I read a really interesting blog on the Conversation which uncovered different ethical positions about where one should draw the line - to eat avocados or not. What's your stance? Does this information prompted you to...
www.veganforum.org
Vegan grey areas
I've been vegan for several months and most areas of veganism seem cut and dry to me. Eating meat, fishing, wearing fur, using make up that was tested on animals, and many other aspects are a no brainer for me. There are, however, a few grey areas which I crave the opinion of other vegans on...
www.veganforum.org
Vegan Dogs
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but what is your view in conclusion then before i read all these articles ? is that possible to state in summary your view ?
OP
OP
As a general rule, I try not to inject my views into these. My main goal is just for people to think about these things for themselves. I even noticed that the authors of these articles try to be good journalists and keep their opinions out of it.
Also, my views are always changing based on not only new info but these kinds of articles challenge my way of thinking.
I thought the top article (the newest), although not having anything new to report, I liked how he dived deep into the ethics and philosophy of the issue. And despite the article's headline saying "Here's The Science", the bottom half of the article is all about ethics. And since the author is a Professor of Ethics (At Harvard, no less), I think he knows what he is talking about. Way more than me anyway.
For me, this concept of Sufficientarianism is new (to me) but easily slots into my mind's way of thinking about things. I'm pretty sure I've been practicing it for years even tho the term is new to me. However, I don't see myself labeling myself as a vegantarian anytime soon.
Since I live in California there is little doubt that the almonds I buy in the store are California almonds and come with all the issues of bee exploitation and water usage. And since I prefer soy milk over almond milk anyway. And usually, buy peanuts cause they are cheaper. Or cashews because they are needed in some recipes. Well, it's just easy (for me) to skip almonds at the store.
I'm still pretty close to the fence on this. I would not presume to convince you one way or the other. I would encourage you to think about it.
Anyway, I encourage you to read at least the first article and then Tell Me what You thought. I'd love to hear it.
Also, my views are always changing based on not only new info but these kinds of articles challenge my way of thinking.
I thought the top article (the newest), although not having anything new to report, I liked how he dived deep into the ethics and philosophy of the issue. And despite the article's headline saying "Here's The Science", the bottom half of the article is all about ethics. And since the author is a Professor of Ethics (At Harvard, no less), I think he knows what he is talking about. Way more than me anyway.
For me, this concept of Sufficientarianism is new (to me) but easily slots into my mind's way of thinking about things. I'm pretty sure I've been practicing it for years even tho the term is new to me. However, I don't see myself labeling myself as a vegantarian anytime soon.
Since I live in California there is little doubt that the almonds I buy in the store are California almonds and come with all the issues of bee exploitation and water usage. And since I prefer soy milk over almond milk anyway. And usually, buy peanuts cause they are cheaper. Or cashews because they are needed in some recipes. Well, it's just easy (for me) to skip almonds at the store.
I'm still pretty close to the fence on this. I would not presume to convince you one way or the other. I would encourage you to think about it.
Anyway, I encourage you to read at least the first article and then Tell Me what You thought. I'd love to hear it.
Vegan Dogs
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right...so you avoid almonds. got there lol ! i shall read more but i already can say having read some of these almonds and bees issues before and having personally bee a bee keeper pre vegan days...i AVOID CALIFORNIA AVOCADOS and ALMONDS for the BEES suffering those processes involve.
There. Said it without reading the articles even....I just need a LIST OF BOYCOTT TO STOP HARMING THE BEES products !
There. Said it without reading the articles even....I just need a LIST OF BOYCOTT TO STOP HARMING THE BEES products !
What is the origin of your cashews? If they are from Vietnam, then behind those nuts is a long history of human exploitation, child labour and major health risks. The cashew oil that bleeds from the shell when harvesting is a powerful corrosive, and eventually eats away at the hands of the pickers. Safety protection is never issued by the business owners. And when their hands are no longer able to function, when their fingers are no more than stumps where the skin has corroded away, they are fired, to make way for new employees. Or, increasingly, prison detainees on drug charges are despatched to labour camps to do the picking. And they are regularly subjected to torture if they underperform
I guess it's down to the individual to determine where the life of a bee or the life of a human holds more/equal/less worth.
OP
OP
I didn't know that about cashews. Fortunately, you can still buy free trade cashews online. Maybe even in stores. I will have to look around.
After doing some research I found this company.
After doing some research I found this company.
How Ethical Cashew Nuts Are Processed
Some people have commented on our recipes with concerns over the ethics of buying cashew nuts. This is because the raw cashew nut contains the same toxic substance as poison ivy and can cause serious health
www.nestandglow.com
Nice one Lou. Yes it is possible to find ethically 'better' food, but sadly so many people disregard doing so. Even with plant-based diet communities and influencers, I hear remarkably little discussion of the human cost / exploitation behind food. It seems somewhat hypocritical to argue for compassion towards other animals, but say nothing of the human expense behind production
I for one have always looked for:
... food that is independently owned, rather than a product from a global multinational. The corporations usually have a poor human rights track record, and even their legitimate dealings screw farmers so hard on wholesale price in order to maximise shareholder return, that it should be illegal to operate in such a greedy manner. f**K the companies, and f**K the shareholders. It's the farmers who deserve the lion's share of the profit.
....and also local. 'Food Miles' is a HUGE problem. We don't need tinned tomatoes from Italy, shipped across continents. It's a terrible and unnecessary strain on the environment.
...and it should go without saying that people think about packaging. The impact of waste (plastics especially) on the ecosystem is shocking. Haven't heard a SINGLE thing from the vegan influencers about plastics and ocean animals. Not a peep.
I really don't want to sound preachy, especially since I'm new to this forum, and a plant-based diet, but I would tentatively argue that there are WAY bigger issues around food production than whether a box of goddamn bees used on avocado production is right or not.
I for one have always looked for:
... food that is independently owned, rather than a product from a global multinational. The corporations usually have a poor human rights track record, and even their legitimate dealings screw farmers so hard on wholesale price in order to maximise shareholder return, that it should be illegal to operate in such a greedy manner. f**K the companies, and f**K the shareholders. It's the farmers who deserve the lion's share of the profit.
....and also local. 'Food Miles' is a HUGE problem. We don't need tinned tomatoes from Italy, shipped across continents. It's a terrible and unnecessary strain on the environment.
...and it should go without saying that people think about packaging. The impact of waste (plastics especially) on the ecosystem is shocking. Haven't heard a SINGLE thing from the vegan influencers about plastics and ocean animals. Not a peep.
I really don't want to sound preachy, especially since I'm new to this forum, and a plant-based diet, but I would tentatively argue that there are WAY bigger issues around food production than whether a box of goddamn bees used on avocado production is right or not.
OP
OP
OP
OP
no reason we can't value both.
Since I've become vegan, I've become more cognizant of human rights and how it relates to consumerism. right here on the vegan forum, we have discussed all kinds of human rights issues that pertain to consumerism, from ethically produced garments, boycotting West African chocolate, and purchasing Free Trade coffee. I would be surprised to find an ethical vegan who doesn't list those as his/her concerns when making purchases.
I may even go so far as to say that the mindfulness that helps inform and direct a vegan's choices only helps a vegan become aware of human rights abuses and choose to avoid contributing to them.
For instance, it was only because we were discussing vegan food choices that I learned about the conditions in Vietnamese cashew processing plants.
