Talking to vegetarians vs. talking to omnivores

[beancounter]

If a person makes a choice to use a someone's views on veg*n related issues as a litmus test for any further discussions on any other unrelated topic, then yes, there would be a difference, but it's a self-induced difference.

For me there is..
Because if your position as an omni is that animals are a food source in the same way that a carrot or a tomato is and apparently deserving of the same respect then how can I respect anything you say from that point on?

I don't want to feel this and God knows I have tried not to feel it in order not to alienate myself from old friends that I love very much. But.. Increasingly even the most basic exchanges leave me feeling saddened and disappointed .

This is particularly relevant subject to me this week as a simple text catch up
With one of my oldest friends and a self proclaimed " dog lover" ended when I read that she is behaving irresponsibly regarding not spaying her dogs and is seeing the consequential puppies arrival as an unexpected revenue source.

To her as an omni her dogs are a commodity to me as a Veggie they are not. So I am avoiding further conversations with her to avoid exposing yet another area we cannot agree on.

I find increasingly that even treading cautiously on " safe ground" with omni workmates and friends ends up with some remark or even harmless joke that leads to a dilemma where I
Have to go wading in with both Veggie feet and cause eye rolling and indignation or just shut my mouth and exit the conversation .

 

[shyvas]

That's really sad.

I met one person (in the UK) in the 80's. Does that count ?

All the other people who say they are vegetarians that I have in my outer circle, eat fish. One woman that I met over here said that she used to
be a vegetarian, however once again she ate fish !!!!

 

[Clueless Git]

And as long as those topics aren't discussed, there is no meaninful difference between talking with a veg*n vs. an omni.

That may be true for vegetarians, BC.

Vegetarians and omnis do not differ on the morality that animals are commodities to be exploited for completely unnecessary food.

They don't differ on the exploitation resulting in premature death of the animal either.

(Not past the point of intentional ignorance and denial of empirical facts, anyway).

Vegetarians and omnis differ only on which parts of exploited animals they like to consume.

As Chovie said, and she only scraped the surface, the list of trigger points for vegans in conversation with omni's (and to a marginaly lesser degree with vegetarians) is huge.

 

[beancounter]

But you can choose whether or not to allow what omni's say to bother you to the point of not talking to them anymore.

And personally, I've never heard an omni volunteer their views on animal exploitation, unless a veg*n brought up the subject.

My wife's aunt went on an interview to a bank. everything was going fine, until she asked if the bank expoited animals. She chose to broch the subject, which ended badly.

This same aunt tore down a Bush-Cheney sign in Kennebunkport in broad daylight. I may with agree her view of Bush, but I made a choice not to intentionally aggravate people by tearing down signs.

As Chovie said, and she only scraped the surface, the list of trigger points for vegans in conversation with omni's (and to a marginaly lesser degree with vegetarians) is huge.

 

[Clueless Git]

But you can choose whether or not to allow what omni's say to bother you to the point of not talking to them anymore.

It's not always if what a omni says bothers a vegan, BC.

More, its that what vegans say, if they say what they know, will always bother the omnis.

Point being this; What's the point in having a convo with people who know FA and whom you don't want to, or can't, say what you know to them?


I'm not talking about what vegans know being anywhere near the realms of rocket science either.

 

[Ann Chovie]

And personally, I've never heard an omni volunteer their views on animal exploitation, unless a veg*n brought up the subject.

I find the opposite is true Beancounter.!

I find that however hard I try to avoid the subject and just mingle in company .. any omni new to the group will find it entertaining to play "poke the Vegan".

A well known game in omni circles which starts with two players but ends with many more. Objective of the game being to bombard the Vegan with as many "stupid things omnis say" as poss before the buzzer rings .

Vegan objective to remain affable and good humoured while being bombarded.

Final round is when the Vegan starts to respond and explain. At this point he has to go directly to jail for " preaching" . Game ends when all other players lay the " preachy/ freak / bore/ smart arse card and the game is abandoned.

 

[Tom L.]

I like to talk to both of them, but I feel more at ease talking with vegetarians (including vegans). If I spend any great amount of time with someone, my strict vegetarianism eventually comes up. If they ask why I'm doing this, I first give my short answer: I try to avoid harming animals. If they prompt me for more information, I give it to them in a non-dramatic way.

Actually... I sometimes don't understand myself. I'm passionate enough about animals to avoid eating their flesh, eggs, and milk, and have been on this path since 1968 (I guess, when I became pescetarian). But my neighbors invited me over for their Memorial Day picnic last weekend, and of course they were cooking meat on their outdoor grill. They like animals a lot... take good care of their dogs and cats (adopted, not bought from a store)... feed local birds and squirrels. They know I'm vegetarian, and offered to have lots of stuff I could eat.

I can't figure out why it didn't bother me to visit with them with the grill going, when it would have bothered me a LOT if they had actually killed the animals right there, and I care enough about this to refrain from eating things that would require animals to be harmed in their production, even though I'm still tempted sometimes.

 

[Dropkick]

This post might offend some. If so I'm sorry, but these are my opinions and feelings, and as such might be offensive or even possibly wrong, but they're mine.

I've mainly worked and lived in a university town, so my major contact with vegetarians has been the veg*n students. Sadly many of them are posers, only eating a vegetarian diet because it's a popular thing on campus to do. They run around loudly talking about their veg*n life choice so everyone can hear about it, and then sneak over to McDonald's for a Big Mac. This life choice doesn't impress me, and I avoid them as I have no respect for them - even when I was a meat eater I felt like slapping them around.
-This is probably where I developed a bad knee jerk reaction (that I'm fighting as many people don't deserve this) when people say they're "Vegan" my first reaction is to think that they're posers.

I have met a few vegetarians who I'm very happy to visit with. Most of them I've met since I changed my diet, though I have had some friends who have been vegetarian/Buddhists or just plain vegetarians for many years (not all Buddhists are veg*n). However most of the people I'm around are meat eaters.

I grew up in farm and ranch country. I have slaughtered and butchered animals in the past, and while I have made a personal choice not to do so any longer I would feel like a hypocrite if I held these actions against those that make their livings by raising animals for slaughter, or those that raise them for their own consumption. By extension I don't have a problem with people who buy meat at the store.

- I feel that those that abuse animals should be neutered with a hammer, but I have held this view for my entire life. - A rancher is not a sadist, unfortunately some sadists are ranchers.

 

[Clueless Git]

I grew up in farm and ranch country. I have slaughtered and butchered animals in the past, and while I have made a personal choice not to do so any longer I would feel like a hypocrite if I held these actions against those that make their livings by raising animals for slaughter, or those that raise them for their own consumption. By extension I don't have a problem with people who buy meat at the store.

From my personal understanding of the 'correct' buddhist view for you DK ...

To 'see yourself in others'; Not to hold being caught in 'wrong livelihood' against others; To have compassion for both victim(s) and victimiser(s); All 'right view'.

Compassion for victimiser (desire for them to feel the joys of non-victimisation) may be more important than compassion for victim, even.

That, to a degree, would be equanimity.

If that slips into indifference/non-discernment (the 'close enemies' of equanimity) leading to inaction, that becomes wrong view leading to wrong action though.

(not all Buddhists are veg*n)

There's that 'trendy life style poser' problem manifesting itself again.

 

[Clueless Git]

I can't figure out why it didn't bother me to visit with them with the grill going, when it would have bothered me a LOT if they had actually killed the animals right there ...

It's a simple matter of 'disconnect' there, Tom?

 

[Tom L.]

^^^ Yes- I think so. But I still don't understand it.

And although, as Dropkick wrote above, some of those who claim to be "vegetarian" or "vegan" might indeed be posers, others might be at an earlier stage of their journey to be veg*n and haven't yet learned how to control themselves as much as they aim to. I wouldn't disrespect the second group at all.

 

[Katrina]

I don't really care either way, so long as they don't act like dicks.

 

[Dropkick]

There's that 'trendy life style poser' problem manifesting itself again.

I'm not really familiar with the Buddhist religion (which is really bad as I was once married to one). My ex-wife was raised Buddhist untill she was 12 years old, and referred to herself as Buddhist. (She was raised in Thailand and then Italy - mother Thai/father Italian). She ate meat, however that might be similar to a drinking Mormon or a bacon eating Jew, I don't know. I currently know of 3 people (2 I worked with) that say they are Buddhist, but eat meat. As I'm only vaguely familiar with the tenants of the Buddhist religion I took this to mean that some Buddhists eat meat while others don't.

 

[Dropkick]

^^^ Yes- I think so. But I still don't understand it.

And although, as Dropkick wrote above, some of those who claim to be "vegetarian" or "vegan" might indeed be posers, others might be at an earlier stage of their journey to be veg*n and haven't yet learned how to control themselves as much as they aim to. I wouldn't disrespect the second group at all.

My big problem with them was how they loudly pushed their veganism on everyone, trying show how special they were, and how much better they were than those that didn't follow the views they were (currently) proclaiming.
I have the same problem with many religious proselytizers.
I have found many of them to be hypocrites.

 

[Clueless Git]

She ate meat, however that might be similar to a drinking Mormon or a bacon eating Jew, I don't know.

By commonality it's more akin to a 'non cheek turning, would rather not walk the second mile, never mind the plank in my own eye the splinter in yours is far more interesting, fekkit I'm going to throw the first stone anyway' type Christian, DK.

 

[Blobbenstein]

yes, it's easier to be a christian if you don't actually follow the teachings.

 

[Clueless Git]

yes, it's easier to be a christian if you don't actually follow the teachings.

Aye, and here's a clip of rival groups of 'buddhist' monks trying to kick the sh*t out of each other ...

Sole point there being to confirm that it's easier to be a buddhist if you haven't got a fookin' clue what buddhism is too.

 

[Dropkick]

Sole point there being to confirm that it's easier to be a buddhist if you haven't got a fookin' clue what buddhism is too.

If we continue to apply this rule I could become known as one of the most accomplished people in the world!
Because I know crap all about tons of things!
I'm actually pretty much an ignorant knob!
Cool!