The Everything Non-Dairy Thread

[FredVegrox]

Why do you think the B12 they supplement foods with is any different than the B12 you supplement as sublinguals? It's actually better to take on an empty stomach

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I do not even have sublinguals. As said earlier I had supplements and they ran out and it would be a few days before I would get more. As I did. I do not see why skipping several days between each is alright. I think then, if I miss any days especially, I should have some food with that vitamin. I have settled with it being in rice milk or soy milk that I now get, just having it with coffee every other night when I wake up, as I alternate with a green tea the other times, and just occasionally with oatmeal, and when the warmer part of the year comes and I stop having oatmeal I will then start with the raisin bran that I found that is also fortified with that vitamin. It sure can be in food, it is in what others eat that get it, just as grazing animals get it. I might get it as they do if I was getting vegetables right from good soil and heating up with little rinsing first.

 

[FredVegrox]

Maybe I would have such vegetables growing in contact with the soil where there are the vitamin B12 producing bacteria, and just rinse them lightly before using in meals, and have the vitamin adequately then. It would be possible that way if I ever come to land where I might be growing my food, just as I would like to do. But where I live and how I have it this is not possible.

 

[Lou]

I did a little googling and I could not find a very definitive reference.
However it is my understanding that, yes you can get B12 from unwashed vegetables. but it's not a good idea not to wash your food.

Carnivores get b12 from the meat of herbivores.
Herbivores have bacteria in their guts that produce B12. and although the site of B12 absobrion is pretty far down - they have complicated GI tracts that allow for B12 absorption.
Primates also have bacteria in their colon that produce B12 but the site of absorbing is before that so they can't absorb b12 that way,
Rabbits are sort of the exception. They are vegetarian, and their digestive system is pretty straight forward . They get their b12 by eating their poop.
Some primates do that too. plus most primates are not purely vegetarian. And in the wild they don't wash their veggies first.

Anyway the best source of B12 for vegans is supplementation.

 

[FredVegrox]

I don't mean pulling it from the ground and eating it, or even pulling it from the ground, rinsing it off, and eating it. But if we grow our food that we want and need where there is good soil, we can take it, and rinse off the vegetables and then cook it. The vitamin B12 will not be destroyed with that but any harmful bacteria and such microorganisms will be destroyed, or deactivated, with that. Getting vitamin B12 from the bacteria themselves that make it should be good for us, not worse. It would be in the design for us, as I see it.

 

[Lou]

I don't mean pulling it from the ground and eating it, or even pulling it from the ground, rinsing it off, and eating it. But if we grow our food that we want and need where there is good soil, we can take it, and rinse off the vegetables and then cook it. The vitamin B12 will not be destroyed with that but any harmful bacteria and such microorganisms will be destroyed, or deactivated, with that. Getting vitamin B12 from the bacteria themselves that make it should be good for us, not worse. It would be in the design for us, as I see it.

Ii think we are on different wavelengths or something.
As far as I know Herbivores get their B12 from their bacteria in their gut.
our gut bacteria in our large intestine also produces B12. but the site for absorption is in the small intestine. and our food passes by it too early in the digestive process.

Probably bacteria in the soil produces B12 and possibly we could get enough b12 from eating dirty vegetables. that is probably what happened early on. However even chimps in the wild are seen washing their vegetables. There is a famous study with chimps who made trips to the shore to collect veggies and wash them. but I'm not even sure that is important. primitive man and apes were not vegan. apes eat insects and even small animals.


Really it shouldn't be a big deal to just add a small supplement to our diet. That's not even a "just vegan" thing. many Carnists are B12 deficient and should also supplement.

 

[Tom L.]

Relatively small amounts of a B-12 supplement each day or so (either in fortified foods or as tablets- or even a fragment of a tablet, as I do) isn't expensive, and won't do us any harm. So I don't see any reason to not supplement. But I always take my supplements as part of a meal. My Calcium supplement instructions specifically recommend this, but I can't remember what it says on my B-12 tablet instructions. (Not to self: check that when you get home).

 

[FredVegrox]

I do take supplements for vitamin B12. I did not do it right away when starting off with eating from vegan choices. But I was soon aware that I should supplement for it. Now I use soy milk or rice milk that is fortified with that vitamin, I use it in coffee I have on occasion, I alternate it with having green tea which would be the next day, and it just has agave nectar and ginger with it but none of those milks. I did just have fortified rice milk in oatmeal today. And with the warming weather I have raisin bran that is fortified with that vitamin which I will be having occasionally too. I am not likely to be getting deficient in it.

I do not speak for eating dirty vegetables. Yes, some might be on a different wavelength. I mean that if I was growing all my food, which sounds good to do, to me, I would rinse them off. That is as much as the apes that were mentioned would manage to do with washing them. Then I would cook the vegetables, as I do now for having the meals I do. Harmful bacteria that can be present do not survive the cooking process. But cooking does not destroy vitamin B12, which may be still present though dirt particles were rinsed away. That does sound sensible to me, especially if I am going to be independent from what I might get when I would be growing everything for what I need. Do any here really know the future fully? It might not all remain as it is. You do not know. So it is better to think of other circumstances ahead, and not remain so fully dependent.