The 'instant-vegan' quote ...

[Clueless Git]

By demonizing vegetarians I don't think any more good is being done.

If this was consistent with your opinion on 'demonizing' pedophiles/rapists/sexist/racists/etc then I might take some notice.

 

[Clueless Git]

Kind of related question: Is a fruitarian higher up than vegans in the animal ethics pyramid? Or is it about the same?

It's a good question, MP.

Personaly I do see fruitarians as higher up the ethical pyramid than vegans.

That may be one of the reasons I have problems with omnis who refuse to acknowledge the higher ground of vegetarianism and with vegetarians who refuse to acknowledge the higher ground of veganism.

It is one thing to not be ready to move to higher ground.

Quite another thing to expend ones effort into argument that higher ground and lower ground are equal.

 

[Second Summer]

Ethics motivated animal breeding is an oxymoron IS.

I think ethics-motivated vegetarians wouldn't breed and exploit animals in quite the same manner as is usually done in the meat-industrial complex. I just can't imagine anyone who value ethics to that extent could run that sort of operation. It would probably be more along the lines of the ISKCON-run farms such as Bhaktivedanta Manor. There's a world of difference between those and commercial dairy farms.
http://iskconuk.com/?p=547

 

[Blobbenstein]

Personaly I do see fruitarians as higher up the ethical pyramid than vegans.

Why is that then?

 

[FortyTwo]

If this was consistent with your opinion on 'demonizing' pedophiles/rapists/sexist/racists/etc then I might take some notice.

How can you even mildly compare these!?

 

[Clueless Git]

I think ethics-motivated vegetarians wouldn't breed and exploit animals in quite the same manner as ...

In the same way that 'ethics-motivated' slave traders (f'rinstance) wouldn't breed and exploit slaves in quite the same manner as ... I agree.

 

[Clueless Git]

Why is that then?

Because when the measure of ethics is less harm/damage then less becomes more/higher, Blobbers.

My understanding is that a fruitarian diet causes less harm/damage than a vegan diet.

Simple as that.

 

[Clueless Git]

How can you even mildly compare these!?

The basis for comparing fundamentaly wrong thing(s) with other fundamentaly wrong thing(s) is simple.

They all belong in the category of things that are fundamentaly wrong.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Because when the measure of ethics is less harm/damage then less becomes more/higher, Blobbers.

My understanding is that a fruitarian diet causes less harm/damage than a vegan diet.

Simple as that.

How do fruitarians cause less harm?

 

[Clueless Git]

How do fruitarians cause less harm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

 

[Blobbenstein]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism

yes, that is the Wiki page on fruitarianism.
Can you quote something from it which you feel backs up your claim that it is a more ethical diet than veganism?

Do you think plants that non-fruitarians eat can suffer?

I believe in cellular consciousness myself, but I doubt that plants like lettuce actually suffer if you eat them.

 

[ledboots]

yes, that is the Wiki page on fruitarianism.
Can you quote something from it which you feel backs up your claim that it is a more ethical diet than veganism?

Do you think plants that non-fruitarians eat can suffer?

I believe in cellular consciousness myself, but I doubt that plants like lettuce actually suffer if you eat them.

Well I'm no expert, but it seems to me that fruit is meant to be eaten off the plant when ripe, to spread the seeds and all, but the lettuce has to be replanted the next year because you ate the whole thing.

 

[FortyTwo]

In the same way that 'ethics-motivated' slave traders (f'rinstance) wouldn't breed and exploit slaves in quite the same manner as ... I agree.

You are going to extremes, not because the actual practices themselves aren't equally horrid, but because the views that most of society holds on them are completely different. You can't expect everyone to immediately grasp these concepts, and most of them never will.

Anyways, I've said my opinion, and this thread isn't in the Vegetarian section anymore, so I've gotten what I came here for. I'll be stepping out now.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Well I'm no expert, but it seems to me that fruit is meant to be eaten off the plant when ripe, to spread the seeds and all, but the lettuce has to be replanted the next year because you ate the whole thing.

But that doesn't really matter if lettuces aren't sentient.

 

[ledboots]

But that doesn't really matter if lettuces aren't sentient.

Well I was talking from more a care of the earth standpoint as far as fruit being "better" to eat. I don't think lettuces or peaches are sentient.

 

[KLS52]

I was wondering if it had something to do with the harvesting...like less little critters (such as field mice) would be harmed with fruit picking? Just a thought.

 

[Clueless Git]

I was wondering if it had something to do with the harvesting...like less little critters (such as field mice) would be harmed with fruit picking? Just a thought.

Bingo!

 

[Second Summer]

The basis for comparing fundamentaly wrong thing(s) with other fundamentaly wrong thing(s) is simple.

They all belong in the category of things that are fundamentaly wrong.

So, since harvesting e.g. grains is harming little critters, and veganism allows consumption of foods made from such grains, shouldn't veganism go in the bag with things that are fundamentally wrong as well?

In the same way that 'ethics-motivated' slave traders (f'rinstance) wouldn't breed and exploit slaves in quite the same manner as ... I agree.

I think it's difficult to find a phenomenon that can accurately and fairly be said to be similar to vegetarianism. Slave trade is definitely not one such phenomenon.

 

[Clueless Git]

So, since harvesting e.g. grains is harming little critters, and veganism allows consumption of foods made from such grains, shouldn't veganism go in the bag with things that are fundamentally wrong as well?

Certainly it points to fruitarianism being 'better', IS.

Somewhat paradoxicaly I dont actualy have a problem with people doing fundamentaly wrong thing, btw.

I just have bit of a bee in my bonnet with people (in general) trying to re-formulate wrong things that they want to do into rights.

It's a bit of a "if you want be a Git, be a Git but don't pretend your not a Git" thing going on there ...

I think it's difficult to find a phenomenon that can accurately and fairly be said to be similar to vegetarianism. Slave trade is definitely not one such phenomenon.

We disagree massively there.

 

[Ann Chovie]

So, since harvesting e.g. grains is harming little critters, and veganism allows consumption of foods made from such grains, shouldn't veganism go in the bag with things that are fundamentally wrong as well?.

In the 'bag' of wrong things we have..meat eaters doing maximum harm. Vegetarians doing less harm . Vegans doing even less harm. Fruitarians doing (I believe ) no harm at all.

We are all doing things that are fundamentally wrong , the extent of that 'wrong' depends on what position we take.

But lets be realistic and admit how much wrong we are doing and not pretend we are doing none at all just because we are doing the maximum wrong.