NSFW THE TRUMPOCALYPSE

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beancounter said:
Denial isn't just river in Egypt.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...well, you know.
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Well, if I had a time machine, I'd go back and do my utmost to thrown the nomination to Bernie, just so that you could experience him losing to DT.

Unfortunately, that's not within my power, so I guess we'll just have to live with the Bernie Bros sighing, "If only...." for the rest of their lives.

Thank you, though, for continuing to make my point about how progressives/liberals have to have it exactly their way, or else they can't be bothered to play. The future looks bright.
 
beancounter said:
Denial isn't just river in Egypt.

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results...well, you know.

Clinton lost, so it's reasonable to assume that the message didn't resonate with enough voters and/or didn't energize enough people.
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Clinton won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes, she lost because of a flawed, archaic system. She has a higher popular vote total than all of the presidents except for Obama.
 
Moll Flanders said:
Well, yes, obviously rude and pretty silly too. Sympathizing with white supremacists? I'm not sure how you got that from me saying that I now understand why some people were angry with the Democratic party.
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Dump won because white supremacy is rampant in the US. White supremacist ideals bubbling under the surface of many of his supporters caused him to gain the support he did. White supremacy is inextricably linked to his campaign on every level. By framing his supporters as just a bunch of disgruntled middle class folks annoyed with the shenanigans of the Democratic elite, the insidiousness of his campaign is overlooked, and in doing so there is a major risk of letting white supremacists get away with being white supremacists. Every one of his supporters is either a white supremacist or is willing to let white supremacy slide to accomplish their other goals. That can't be ignored.

I really, truly am not trying to be rude to you here. I'm not suggesting you're a white supremacist or that you sympathize with their ideology. If that's how it seemed, well, I take full responsibility for that. I'm sorry.

Literally the only thing I'm trying to say here is that to frame this as a populist narrative is to necessarily ignore the more insidious motives beneath it, and besides that, isn't entirely accurate.

Indian Summer said:
No, just a wee bit uninformed and smidgeon dogmatic :)
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When it comes to Clump I'm pretty well informed. When I'm not informed about something, I fully admit to it. I've followed this election very closely out of necessity and anxiety.

As for dogmatic, well... I believe in what I believe in. I'm not terribly casual about this sort of thing, not anymore. If that makes me dogmatic or authoritarian then so be it.

Brexit had supporters on the left too, for starters.
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I mean, yeah. A lot of Bernie supporters jumped to Clump as well, despite his complete opposition to everything their candidate stood for. Some people just want to be contrarians and don't bother with the specifics. Doesn't change the fact that it's a right-wing enterprise at its core.
 
Calliegirl said:
Clinton won the popular vote by almost 3 million votes, she lost because of a flawed, archaic system. She has a higher popular vote total than all of the presidents except for Obama.
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Yes, of course. We would all like to see the Electoral College scrapped.

But it's not going to happen. Why? Because those in power (including the Democrats) like it.
It gives them the ability to override the will of the people, should they ever choose to do so.

They are not going to abandon a fail safe that allows them to maintain power.

As such, Clinton should have done what she needed to do to win under the current system.

She failed to do so....

It's not your fault. It's not my fault. It's her fault.
 
beancounter said:
Yes, of course. We would all like to see the Electoral College scrapped.

But it's not going to happen. Why? Because those in power (including the Democrats) like it.
It gives them the ability to override the will of the people, should they ever choose to do so.

They are not going to abandon such a fail safe to maintain their power.

As such, Clinton should have done what she needed to do to win under the current syste.

She didn't....
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Fortunately, I think the Democratic elite is pretty firmly against the electoral college now. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they weren't after this.
 
I know they are already working on changing it to the popular vote decides the winner.

The National Popular Vote Interstate Compact (NPVIC) is an agreement among a group of U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their respective electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote in the 50 states and the District of Columbia. The compact is designed to ensure that the candidate who wins the most popular votes is elected president, and it will come into effect only when it will guarantee that outcome.[2][3] As of 2016, it has been adopted by ten states and the District of Columbia. Together, they have 165 electoral votes, which is 30.7% of the total Electoral College and 61.1% of the votes needed to give the compact legal force....
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National Popular Vote Interstate Compact - Wikipedia
 
beancounter said:
As such, Clinton should have done what she needed to do to win under the current system.

She failed to do so....

It's not your fault. It's not my fault. It's her fault.
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No, it's the fault of the people who voted for a narcissistic demagogue with the personality and self control of a spoiled three year old, or failed to exercise their votes to stop him.

Politicians don't need to "earn" our vote. That's just a ridiculous concept. It's not a fricking popularity contest, or an episode of American Idol.

Each of us, as citizens, has a responsibility to ourselves, to our society, and to those who come after us to exercise our vote to make the most responsible choice among the candidates on offer.

The only thing they owe us is to govern as well as possible if they are elected.
 
Amy SF said:
Well, it's all over. It's official.

Electoral College Makes It Official For Donald Trump, Despite Attempts By 'Faithless Electors' | The Huffington Post

We're in for a long nightmare, and I have no idea when it will end, if ever. They'll repeal Obamacare, privatize or get rid of Medicare and Social Security entirely, repeal Roe v. Wade, overturn same sex marriage and abolish other laws protecting LGBTS, and that's just for starters. All progress of the last 50-60 years will be destroyed. And Americans will sit around complaining about it all on social media, and then when it comes time to vote against this nightmare, they'll conveniently find an excuse not to, and then get defensive when they're criticized.
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I wouldn't be sorry if Roe v. Wade were overturned (although contraceptives would have to be made more reliable, and probably more accessible as well, if that were to work properly)... but the rest of this Trump agenda would definitely be a huge leap backward. Making health care less accessible and/or denying same-sex couples marriage equality: not pro-life.
 
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Mischief said:
No, it's the fault of the people who voted for a narcissistic demagogue with the personality and self control of a spoiled three year old, or failed to exercise their votes to stop him.
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No, it's her fault for failing to convince them to vote for her.

The blame is hers and hers alone. The buck stops with her, and it really shows lack of character on her part for convincing her loyal followers to point their fingers at everyone else for her own failings.
 
beancounter said:
No, it's her fault for failing to convince them to vote for her.
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I think you screwed up your sentence somehow, but I couldn't disagree more with what I think you meant to say.

Voters are (supposedly) adults. If we believe lies, if we are willing to vote for, or not vote against, someone like DT, then it's on us.

In your world, we are impressionable children who need to be swayed with promises of candy and being allowed to stay up late.

I reject that. That kind of thinking is why humans take one step back for every step we take forward.

It's fricking time for people to take responsibility for their own actions/failures to act.
 
Tom said:
I wouldn't be sorry if Roe v. Wade were overturned (although contraceptives would have to be made more reliable, and probably more accessible as well, if that were to work properly)... but the rest of this Trump agenda would definitely be a huge leap backward. Making health care less accessible and/or denying same-sex couples marriage equality: not pro-life.
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How could she possibly sway voters that were drawn to Trump because of his racism and hate? Promise to be even more racist? The reason the majority of people voted for her was because she was the opposite, and had real plans that would have benefited vast majority of us. She would have had to have been even more horrendous and therefore lost all those who did vote for her. It was a no win situation.
 
You people really think that half the country's voters are white supremicists? How out of touch can you possibly be? What about the black and hispanic voters who voted for someone other than Hillary? Were they sexist, I suppose? Or so stupid we should take away their voting rights?

Don't you realize how successfully the 1% have divided the country so they can keep their power? Racism, sexism, cop vs citizen, liberal vs conservative, apple vs android...

Just keep on spewing hatred against "the other kind of people", that's always helpful. The comments about people who didn't vote Clinton aren't very nice, either, folks. But of course you are progressive and 100% correct, so be as dickish as you want.

I hoped things would change here after the election, but apparently not. Enjoy.
 
Tom said:
I wouldn't be sorry if Roe v. Wade were overturned (although contraceptives would have to be made more reliable, and probably more accessible as well, if that were to work properly)... but the rest of this Trump agenda would definitely be a huge leap backward. Making health care less accessible and/or denying same-sex couples marriage equality: not pro-life.
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Your statement makes no sense. The same people who want to overturn Roe v. Wade and make abortion completely illegal again also want to get rid of all kinds of contraception and make those illegal as well. It's all part of their push to make healthcare less accessible to everyone, but ESPECIALLY women. They want to return women to the days of being barefoot and pregnant and having lots of kids that keep them at home where they "know their place". This has been a wet dream of the religious right, in concert with the Republican Party, for years. They see their chance now thanks to Donald Trump and a Republican majority in Congress, who will then make sure that SCOTUS has a conservative majority willing to rule on cases the way they want.
 
ledboots said:
You people really think that half the country's voters are white supremicists? How out of touch can you possibly be? What about the black and hispanic voters who voted for someone other than Hillary? Were they sexist, I suppose? Or so stupid we should take away their voting rights?

Don't you realize how successfully the 1% have divided the country so they can keep their power? Racism, sexism, cop vs citizen, liberal vs conservative, apple vs android...

Just keep on spewing hatred against "the other kind of people", that's always helpful. The comments about people who didn't vote Clinton aren't very nice, either, folks. But of course you are progressive and 100% correct, so be as dickish as you want.

I hoped things would change here after the election, but apparently not. Enjoy.
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I think that half (minus roughly three million) of the country's voters are O.K. with voting for someone who espouses racist, anti Muslim, etc. viewpoints. Does that make them better than the person espousing those viewpoints?

What would you say about someone who knowingly puts an active pedophile in a position where the pedophile has access to and power over children? Does that person have any responsibility for putting the pedophile in that position, or is it all A.O.K. because s/he isn't sexually abusing children her/himself?

I kind of think that, if anything, the person who facilitates the sexual abuse of a child is worse than the pedophile. The pedophile, after all, is driven by powerful urges. The facilitator simply doesn't give a damn.

Or, to put it another way - it's like a vegan who owns a chicken "farm." He doesn't eat chicken himself, but he's O.K. with enabling others to do so.

Also, before decrying others for being on a moral high horse, it's a good idea to check what you're riding.

ETA: Also, are you really claiming that women can't be misogynists? That people of color are never biased against people of color? Because I bet you that you've encountered people like that in your life (I sure have in mine), and if you haven't, I can cite you studies as well as examples.
 
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