TV & Film The Walking Dead
- Thread starter thefadedone
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Lordy trying to fight giving away long-term spoilers 
So..... You think Rick will kill Negan?
So..... You think Rick will kill Negan?
Dedalus
Mercurial and fleeting
This would be so much easier on me if everyone here would read the comic lol
I have read the collected volumes 1 and 2. I read graphic novels quite a bit - just haven't got around to plowing through volume 3. I will make it a point to do that over the winter. (IMHO) I read the first 2 so fast that my interest dropped off a bit. It just seemed like an endless cycle of repeating themes. Bad stretch>good stretch>progress>dismantling of progress>rise of super-villian>main character's killed or maimed>fall of super-villain>introduction of new characters....rinse repeat. That being said, I see some promise in the 'Kingdom' storyline - and hopefully this Negan event will spawn some other directions.
I never felt the kind of connection I got with the characters in the comics as much as the TV show. I was a little surprised by that, but at times they felt almost disposable to me. I did start watching the show before I took on the comics though - that may be why.
Dedalus
Mercurial and fleeting
Lordy trying to fight giving away long-term spoilers
Don't tell me! It just seemed that the ax was a foregone conclusion in regards to the way it was presented. "Bring me his ax!" <Inserts ax into his belt....> Though, now that you mention it - this kill really belongs to Maggie. Quit giving me hints, damn you!
I can understand how you come to that conclusion. It's true, there is only so much you can do in the scenario that it's based around. All you can do when writing a story like this is to make the next more interesting and unique than the last bit and depend on the drama of interactions to keep fans wanting more. It's still working out great for Robert Kirkman with the comic, we're on issue #159 now, #160 will be out here in a couple weeks and fans are still just as excited for the next issue to come as ever.
I think original show runner changed some characters too much... Andrea was pretty effectively ruined, all Gimple could really do with her was kill her at that point when he took over. And they make Tyreese a big gentle morally conflicted Teddy bear for some reason? Lordy... But yeah, maybe that is why it was harder to relate to the comic counterparts, because some of them are just so different. Carol and Sasha were/are effectively composite characters due to how bad Andrea's character was messed up. The governor was totally different from the character he was based on too. I could critique what they've done TV vs Comic all day long... As far as getting things more faithful to the source material Gimple has been doing pretty great. But my point is, with those differences I can see people kind of having trouble connecting with how different some of the characters are having seen a good bit of the TV show first.
Don't tell me! It just seemed that the ax was a foregone conclusion in regards to the way it was presented. "Bring me his ax!" <Inserts ax into his belt....> Though, now that you mention it - this kill really belongs to Maggie. Quit giving me hints, damn you!
That's actually not what I was hinting at all, but we'll leave it at that lol
Dedalus
Mercurial and fleeting
Another observation that I'm surprised no one else has mentioned: In putting myself (and I like to think a lot of other people) in the position of the other characters having to endure witnessing that horrifying scene - I'm pretty sure it would be lights out for me no matter what, because I would be so upset that I would be determined to either kill them or be killed in the process. Life wouldn't matter anymore. I couldn't imagine closing my eyes to sleep ever again after that. Case in point: When Negan tells Rick to 'grab the ax' in the RV. Uh - once the ax is in my hand, I've committed to using it. Pointing a gun at me at the last second isn't going to stop me; the wheels would already be in motion. Especially in those closed quarters at close range, I'll take my chances. (He could have thrown the ax!) After what had just occurred, death would be welcome and should I happen to connect with the ax prior to that, so much the better. I like my chances.
If I was writing that scene, I would have had Rick swing the ax, Negan narrowly avoid it and then beat him down physically rather than point the gun at him. That would add to Rick's breakdown.
Question: why was there an ax on the roof of the RV? It did not appear that Negan tossed it up there...did I miss something?
If I was writing that scene, I would have had Rick swing the ax, Negan narrowly avoid it and then beat him down physically rather than point the gun at him. That would add to Rick's breakdown.
Question: why was there an ax on the roof of the RV? It did not appear that Negan tossed it up there...did I miss something?
The way I think of it is it being like this; if someone can manage to survive in such a scenario that they exist in, their will to live has to be pretty great. In the TV show I think they said they're going on three years since it started. Most people didn't survive past the initial confusion and chaos. It would take a certain kind of person with an extremely strong will to live and push on and make it in that kind of world.
Negan's game is to mentally break Rick, by the time Rick gets dragged into the RV I imagine he would have been feeling pretty broken at that point. Without giving any specific spoilers, trust me, Negan isn't finished breaking Rick quite yet. Rick will face more mental abuse, and humiliation within the next few episodes. Maybe even throughout this entire season to some degree depending on how fast they move the story into the next couple story arcs. One thing to keep in mind is that Rick is "the goods", an asset, and for that reason Negan doesn't want to physically break Rick. Like Negan said, Rick works for him now. There's a big difference between the Governor, and Negan. The Governor was psychotic due to a post dramatic mental breakdown (Read the novels for more insight: The Rise of the Governor, The Road to Woodbury, and The Fall of the Governor Part I, and II) and lets face it, the Gov was reckless and sloppy... Negan however, is not. While Negan is obviously a foul mouthed sadist that is brutally violent when he needs to be, he's also very smart, he's calculated and has a well thought out reason for everything he does. The guy has issues yes, and getting the better of him absolutely will not be easy.
I can only assume he did toss the hatchet onto the roof lol
Negan's game is to mentally break Rick, by the time Rick gets dragged into the RV I imagine he would have been feeling pretty broken at that point. Without giving any specific spoilers, trust me, Negan isn't finished breaking Rick quite yet. Rick will face more mental abuse, and humiliation within the next few episodes. Maybe even throughout this entire season to some degree depending on how fast they move the story into the next couple story arcs. One thing to keep in mind is that Rick is "the goods", an asset, and for that reason Negan doesn't want to physically break Rick. Like Negan said, Rick works for him now. There's a big difference between the Governor, and Negan. The Governor was psychotic due to a post dramatic mental breakdown (Read the novels for more insight: The Rise of the Governor, The Road to Woodbury, and The Fall of the Governor Part I, and II) and lets face it, the Gov was reckless and sloppy... Negan however, is not. While Negan is obviously a foul mouthed sadist that is brutally violent when he needs to be, he's also very smart, he's calculated and has a well thought out reason for everything he does. The guy has issues yes, and getting the better of him absolutely will not be easy.
I can only assume he did toss the hatchet onto the roof lol
Comic panel to TV screen... This is going to take a few posts
Didn't make it to the show, but should have.
Didn't make it to the show, but should have.
Part two...
Didn't happen on the show, which is a little disappointing to be honest... But it could still happen? (Yes, Sophia is alive lol)
Didn't happen on the show, which is a little disappointing to be honest... But it could still happen? (Yes, Sophia is alive lol)
FortyTwo
Custom Title
This. So much this. It's not enough to make me even think about quitting the show - I've read the comic, after all, so I am the target audience for this kind of manipulation and I damn sure enjoy the rollercoaster ride it provides - but it's incredibly transparent and kind of disappointing.
I'm not going to fault the show for getting into "torture porn" territory. To make Negan work, he has to be more brutal and more horrifying than anything we've seen as of yet - which is no small task given the **** this show has exposed us to over the years. I mean, this is a show that had one child who had just brutally murdered another child be gunned down in cold blood to prevent further deaths. And that was a ******* heartbreaking, well-written, compelling episode.
Violence isn't the problem here - in fact, I think with respect to the Negan arc it's an incredibly solid storytelling tool, so I have to disagree with the article about that. My issue is solely with the presentation of the character deaths and the circumstances surrounding them. Abraham going first, Negan taunting Rosita, Daryl flipping his ****... not to mention the back and forth weaving about who Negan actually killed. That weaving doesn't make sense if you're trying to tell a story about the characters' reactions to loss and grief and intimidation. It only makes sense if you're trying to cash in on your fans' anxieties over a six month wait after a cliffhanger. That isn't good for anyone other than the hype machine.
Violence isn't the problem here - in fact, I think with respect to the Negan arc it's an incredibly solid storytelling tool, so I have to disagree with the article about that. My issue is solely with the presentation of the character deaths and the circumstances surrounding them. Abraham going first, Negan taunting Rosita, Daryl flipping his ****... not to mention the back and forth weaving about who Negan actually killed. That weaving doesn't make sense if you're trying to tell a story about the characters' reactions to loss and grief and intimidation. It only makes sense if you're trying to cash in on your fans' anxieties over a six month wait after a cliffhanger. That isn't good for anyone other than the hype machine.
I understand EXACTLY what you're saying here. Like, for the first few volumes, I thought it was a solid comic, but nothing spectacular. Maybe part of that was already knowing some of what to expect from having watched the parts of the show that covered the early comics, but it was definitely how I felt. But let me assure you, when Negan shows up, every part of that changes. There is a completely new dynamic as you watch all of these post-apocalyptic societies, each incredibly different in their own right, come together to face an amazing villain.
I would seriously encourage you to stick with it, because even if the first few volumes feel a bit same-y, All Out War is very worth it. And the Negan arc completely changes the comic forever. It starts to really feel like its own unique standout thing, with really good worldbuilding and characters who I for one got so attached to that I'm absolutely floored at any deaths that come along. I understand what you're saying about them seeming kind of disposable - and maybe that's a part of the theme of the early comics, really. Anyone could die at any time and it's godawful and hopeless. But when the characters finally start settling down and trying to make something of their post-apocalypse world on a larger scale, it's wonderful. And everything that goes wrong feels like much more of a punch to the gut, because this time something really, really good could be ruined.
FortyTwo
Custom Title
Also, since Jeremy is a saint and I know some people like spoilers, I'm going to reveal Negan's fate in the comics in the spoiler below. Major long-term spoilers for the comic and almost undoubtedly the show.
Rick confronts Negan at a climactic battle at the Hilltop, and manages to talk him down briefly before violently disarming him and declaring the war over. Negan isn't actually dead, and Rick puts him in prison back at Alexandria to try and enforce a new way of doing things - a sort of "taking the high road" deal where he doesn't want the new world to be focused on revenge and violence, but peaceful conflict resolution. Negan stays in prison for several years until he eventually actually escapes and right now in the comic he's off, um, doing his own thing.
Well, I wouldn't say doing his own thing... He's on the front lines fighting Beta and the whisper's alongside Michonne and Dwight. And mother ******* Lucille got broken! GASP
FortyTwo
Custom Title
Shhh... I'm a couple issues behind...!
And I go and spoil something for FortyTwo hahaha... Sorry
FortyTwo
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Also, I can't be the only one who finds it a bit hypocritical that this website will publish that TWD Quitter's Club article with its scathing denouncement of spectacles of violence on TV, only to then publish articles kissing Westworld's ***, which, although it's a show I enjoy, is hard to argue is that much more than a pseudo-philosophical spectacle of violence.
FortyTwo
Custom Title
It's fine! I accidentally read something about
Negan fighting with our people against the Whisperers and Lucille being broken
before you even said that. So I know I'm missing out on that and I've got a bit of catching up to do.
I think it's actually pretty damn cool how with Morgan's philosophy, and Morgan building the jail cell is foreshadowing that. Obviously Morgan is going to rub off on Rick a bit by the end of All Out War
