Thoughts on the ethics of home grown eggs

[JulieAngelica]

Gab, no, I would not. But it is not a well-suited comparison.
The eggs are not "babies". Chicks are hen's "babies". And even if you consider eggs "babies", or taking away the chicks (though I wouldn't support it), you slightly overestimate the psychology of animals. I know they are capable of thinking and feeling, and to a much greater extent than people believe, but their psyche is nowhere near as complicated as our own. Animals have parenting instinct but it's different than ours. For instance, it's natural that they let the weakest one in the litter die. It is not so with humans. We have complex memories, imagination, we experience trauma far more acutely.

I believe animals should not only not be hurt, but should be treated with respect. But I also believe we are very different from them. I also believe the Bible which says we were originally given custody over Earth. And we have done it wrong, awfully wrong, almost destroyed it. But there will be a time when the original conditions are restored, and we again come to the right terms with nature, as its caretakers. I don't know if we'll be eating eggs then, but I can't see anything wrong with what the thread author, Milly, is doing. And criticizing her is undermining one of the best attitudes (in terms of animal care at least) on this planet.

I'm afraid I've wandered off to an entirely different story, but it all underlies my opinions about living with animals.
Have a nice day.

 

[gab]

Julie, I would also invite you to read this post that winter.frost wrote a while back (chicken and bees/honey come into discussion a fair amount on the forum):

https://veganforum.org/threads/keeping-chickens.483/#post-2042

 

[Damo]

I personally wouldn't touch eggs myself regardless of where they came from, but I understand how in Milly's situation you would be persuaded to consume eggs. I have to agree with @JulieAngelica though it's technically not vegan you're not causing any harm to the animal which to me feels morally justifiable.

It's a grey area. There's going to be people that think it's okay to and it's not. Generally though who has chickens for pets and not for exploitation? If you were to follow veganism by definition, you shouldn't eat eggs. However I think in Milly's case where chickens are free to roam and are not animals used for profit I personally feel that there's nothing wrong with her eating those eggs.

@Milly I think you should decide whether you eat those chickens eggs or not.

 

[Rory]

It's a difficult one but I would not eat them for a few reasons. If you want to be as strict a vegan as possible then you should not be eating eggs full stop, no matter where they come from; it is quite easy and practicable to refrain from eating them and eating other "food" instead (unless you have no other source of "food" and need to in order to survive - I hope this isn't the case!). However, if you do decide to eat them, it's difficult to argue that the hens are being mistreated or even exploited. If they have lots of space, are well looked after, are given love, have shelter, food and water and their eggs would go to waste otherwise then I don't think it's the end of the world if you eat the eggs (although as people have already mentioned - some vegans would disagree). On the other hand, although to a lesser degree, I think it's a dangerous mentality that is the part of the problem of animal agriculture in general; humans taking animal's by-products for their own taste, greed etc. Finally - eggs are VERY unhealthy for you! One egg has over half of your "daily recommended allowance" (although we shouldn't be consuming any cholesterol at all!), they're packed full of saturated fat, animal protein which causes acidity in the body and excess choline which is bad. Plus it comes out of their assgina!! I can't lie - i used to eat a lot of eggs, but i think it's in everyone's interest not to eat them. Please check out my youtube channel https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCJU0v-VF_eT2FYd_fbeyU9w
Rory

 

[Sally]

I don't think we should eat eggs, but I understand that these hens need to be looked after, they are not wild animals. They have been bred for a purpose and the nice part is to save too the hens that no longer lay, as they still have a few years in them but not if they are no longer economic. They need a nice retirement home.

 

[Milly]

Hi Julie,

There is actually an official definition of what a vegan is:

"Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

Collecting the eggs would be a form of exploitation, would you not agree ?

This is a very difficult topic and I do not wish to offend anyone. And I don't achually even eat eggs now, I only keep the chickens. But these are some thoughts I had. Correct me if I'm wrong please I don't want to offend.

exploitation is a very strong word, by definition it mean:
1.
the action or fact of treating someone unfairly in order to benefit from their work.

So as I understand it, there must be an unfair treatment in order for their to be exploitation. As hens in a battery farm go, it's obvious there is unfair treatment, it goes without saying. So battery farmed hen are exploited. But what of hens who are not treated unfairly, who are given love and support and care? Yes the eggs will still be taken from them but it may not be exploitation.

Having said this there is a second definition to the word exploitation:
the action of making use of and benefiting from resources.

Now in this sense of the word I think we can all agree that yes, taking eggs from chickens in any form what so ever is exploitation. But with the idea that exploitation of animals is wrong, and using this definition we can say that keeping a dog to scare away burglars is exploitation. That using animal manure on crop fields is exploitation ( use of their resorces). now as long as the animal is not being hurt in anyway, I see no problem with either of these examples. What do you think?

So yes I accept that taking a hens eggs is exploitation yes. And by definition it is not vegan. But my question is, is it morally wrong to eat hand raised well cared for hens eggs? I'm still not 100% sure but I don't think so.

Any thoughts?

 

[gab]

Hi Milly,

I think that the fact that you are wondering about it and questioning it shows you that something is not right with it.

In my view (and others like Gary Y), keeping pets in general is not vegan. As long as animals cannot agree to anything, it is a one sided decision, like we think that we treat them great, but do they agree ?

Gab

 

[Sally]

If you are breeding an animal in order to keep it in captivity for whatever reason, it doesn't matter how well you treat it, it is exploitation. This is what is wrong with the world generally, everything has to have a reason to exist that benefits someone else, they cannot just be.

 

[greeniegogo415]

I think the idea of eating a hens 'period' makes me a bit sick but if someone feels as if they want to have eggs I think it is extremely kind and considerate to look after the hens themselves rather than buying them from a store, so in my opinion it is ethical, but if you decided to take the next step and not eat them, I think that's amazing and well done

 

[Sally]

It depends on whether someone keeps hens for love of the hens or as a small business. We know people who cannot eat all the eggs their six hens produce so sell them. It's similar with bees, the Save the Bees lady I spoke to said not only did she save bees, she got six jars a honey a year. I said that if I kept bees I'd let the bees keep the honey as well. She looked at me like a light bulb had gone off, and said, "Do you know, you're right." Fingers crossed she still feels the same.

 

[Milly]

'Caretakers of animals' implies that animals could not take care of themselves without humans. Which they can just fine. Animals do not need humans for anything, only we are exploiting them however we see fit ... because they cannot respond back.

I am not meaning to be rude in anyway and I completely understand what your trying to say, but these hens cant survive on their own. humans have bred and bred and bred them until they are almost completely different from any kind of wild bird. I couldn't just let them free as they have been fed by humans all their lives, in the farm and now that they have been rescued. they would die in the wild and this is all down to humans and It deeply upsets me, but that's the way it is. Either they stay in a factory farm, I rescue them or they die.

 

[Sally]

I am not meaning to be rude in anyway and I completely understand what your trying to say, but these hens cant survive on their own. humans have bred and bred and bred them until they are almost completely different from any kind of wild bird. I couldn't just let them free as they have been fed by humans all their lives, in the farm and now that they have been rescued. they would die in the wild and this is all down to humans and It deeply upsets me, but that's the way it is. Either they stay in a factory farm, I rescue them or they die.

Of course any domesticated animal cannot be left to fend for itself, that would be neglect. It's wonderful that you rescue them and give them a happy life.

The problem arises when people see a vegan who is eating eggs, they will think it's okay and not think about where the eggs they eat are originating from, and so the battery farming of hens will be supported through ignorance. I know people who eat free-range and think that the hens are running around a farmyard, not trapped in their thousands in a massive shed with dead hens among them and very little light.

It's a bit like the drink-driving laws, until the law says don't drink and drive, people will continue to think that they are below the level when they are not. Vegan has to mean no animal products or it will lose it's meaning. We cannot be 'sort of vegan', there are no levels, we either are, or we are not, vegan.