To all the women in affected US states-New abortion laws.

[Calliegirl]

God said thou shall not kill or murder. We always hear about woman’s rights. Other then abortion what rights you’re fighting for?
Also I can’t understand vegan community , you’re not fighting for lives for them, there is only rights. Its a political more then a moral issue to you all.
I am not a Christian fascist , I was raised with morals and values and respect. Those that are calling Christian these names are being used by Satan for tearing Christian’s down.
Life begins at conception even web md and well known doctors declares it. They suck the baby with a vaccum and tear limbs when they feel pain. This is demonic Satantic procedure .. There are videos on web what an actual abortion. Cannot believe people supports this evil procedure .

What is truly missing from the mainstream rhetoric is that the pro life argument is that this is not the woman's body but an individual life. Until we can say with 100% certitude that this life doesn't feel anything, we have no right to take it. So-called pro-choicers are just obfuscating by trying to make this a woman's rights issue.

A fetus doesn't feel pain until approximately 30 weeks.

In the review, the researchers highlighted several key points in fetal development that are required in order for a fetus to perceive pain. One is that the receptors in the skin that sense an injury must be developed. Research has shown that this happens between 7.5 and 15 weeks of pregnancy, depending on the location of the receptors on the body, according to the review. For example, receptors in the skin around the mouth develop at around 7.5 weeks, whereas receptors in the skin on the abdomen develop at around 15 weeks, according to the review.

Second, the neurons in the spinal cord that transmit that signal up to the brain must be developed. Researchers who looked at fetal tissues reported that this happens at around 19 weeks, the review said.

Third, the neurons that extend from the spinal cord into the brain need to reach all the way to the area of the brain where pain is perceived. This does not occur until between 23 and 24 weeks, according to the review.

Moreover, the nerves' existence isn't enough to produce the experience of pain, the authors wrote in their review. Rather, "These anatomical structures must also be functional," the authors wrote. It's not until around 30 weeks that there is evidence of brain activity that suggests the fetus is "awake."

Davis noted that while these time frames aren't exact — some fetuses may develop a little earlier, and some fetuses may develop a little later — "there isn't any science to suggest that those pathways [for pain] are complete around the 20th week" of pregnancy.

Do Fetuses Feel Pain? What the Science Says

A new Utah law requires doctors to give fetuses anesthesia prior to abortions that occur at 20 weeks of gestation or later. Can fetuses feel pain at this point?

www.livescience.com

 

[KLS52]

Something I didn’t realize until today…part of the fallout of the reversal of roe v wade is the question of birth control. I did not realize that it carries over whereby the state gets to decide that certain means of birth control are illegal. I think it’s the iud and another form that is implanted in the arm. So women who have blood clotting disorders, who can’t take oral contraceptives, but who have had success with the arm implant, now to get to…what…just use condoms? This is so egregious imo. I want to throw something.
I did a quick google search to see if what I had seen online about this wasn’t just this person being overly dramatic. What I found is thousands (probably more) of women who are being denied having iuds and implants…women who are already using said methods and the effectiveness has expired…and they cannot get new iuds or implants in their state. I’m livid.

And just for the record, I am what I consider, a practicing Catholic. And abortion would be wrong for me (technically, but not saying I would never have one depending on the circumstances...and that would be between me and my God). But to force other women to carry a fetus to term against their will is infuriating to me. I still can’t believe this is where we are today. It is most definitely a women’s right issue.

 

[Lou]

In any kind of debate, discussion, or argument, unless everyone is of the same religion, bringing up god is completely pointless.
I don't even believe in god, so bringing him up does not help support your argument. You must base your argument on something quite a bit better.
Obama said no one is Pro-Abortion. People who are pro-choice are pro-women's rights.
And judging by the Republican's record, they are not Pro-Life. they are anti-women's rights.

For me it has nothing to do with the fetus. It has everything to do with taking a way the right for a woman to control her own body/destiny.

 

[Lou]

Reina redid her video. Seems very appropriate for the 4th of July

 

[Mikkel]

Not even going to read through all post. This is a step back on women's rights. And it's show again that as long as you are not a white cishet male, your rights will never be granted.

1. If you use the Bible and God to support the abortion ban, go and live after all the other rules that are in the Bible. Just not pick what you like and don't. The first one to throw a stone etc. I think there is something about "life begings at birth etc" too.

2. If you don't own a uterus and have problem with abortions, stay away from having sex. Make sure that NO WOMAN ends up pregnant. The only way to be sure of that, is not having sex, as prevention can fail.

3. A 10 year old girl WHO WAS RAPED WAS DENINED AN ABORTION. FU to the people who decide such things.

4. This has nothing about the feutus to do, this is about controlling women's bodies. The interest of the baby is gone after it's born.

5. This will be a poverty problem. Rich people can get help other places, the poor people not.

6. Abortions will not end by this law. SAFE abortion will end by this law. Old fashions methods will come back.

7. Remember, no abortions will also count if your secret mistress gets pregnant.

// End of rant.

 

[Lou]

6. Abortions will not end by this law. SAFE abortion will end by this law. Old fashions methods will come back.

I agree with so many of your points, but not this one.

there is no time machine. We are not going back to wire hangers.
Thanks to blue states, there will be help for people seeking abortions in states that have outlawed it.
There is even a Dutch Doctor that will mail you the abortion pill for under $100.
Both the FDA and Biden are working on making these not just unenforceable - but legal.

 

[anarchist100]

Ya'll seem pretty upset about this, so treason and sedition day, which happens to be today, would be a good day to take matters into your own hands.

 

[Mikkel]

I agree with so many of your points, but not this one.

there is no time machine. We are not going back to wire hangers.
Thanks to blue states, there will be help for people seeking abortions in states that have outlawed it.
There is even a Dutch Doctor that will mail you the abortion pill for under $100.
Both the FDA and Biden are working on making these not just unenforceable - but legal.

Not everyone can even afford that $100 pill, or travel. And this is not a US problem alone, but other countries too. Where they have no blue states to help them out, or a Dutch doctor that can send you a pill. Or pills at all. Other countires have abortion bans on every case than rape and incest, but have made the time that you apply for it until you get it granted so long, that it is practical forbidden.

No woman should be forced to carry her rapist's baby. No girl should be forced to give birth to her own sibling. This is the two most disturbing scenarios... (I don't bother to mention all the other cases).

Edit. There are cases where women have died after DIY abortions different places. Even in Europe....

 

[Calliegirl]

I agree with so many of your points, but not this one.

there is no time machine. We are not going back to wire hangers.
Thanks to blue states, there will be help for people seeking abortions in states that have outlawed it.
There is even a Dutch Doctor that will mail you the abortion pill for under $100.
Both the FDA and Biden are working on making these not just unenforceable - but legal.

There will definitely be women using dangerous methods. Not all women have the time or money to travel out of state, even with help from the blue states. So many are already living below their means, there is no way they could leave town for days. What if they have a small child, or children, who will take care of them in a state where abortions are illegal and risk them being taken away? I would imagine leaving the state for days to get an abortion could be used against women who are in a custody battle or the middle of a divorce as well. They also risk being charged with murder in some states. There are so many scenarios where women will find it easier, or their only choice, to risk a dangerous "back alley" procedure. Maybe not a wire hanger but no doubt something equally as dangerous.

The Texas AG wants to fine businesses $100,000+ for paying for abortion expenses.

Texas attorney general wants to prosecute companies that help women access abortions

Ken Paxton wants to impose fines of more than $100,000 on corporations that facilitate abortion care

finance.yahoo.com

 

[silva]

I agree with so many of your points, but not this one.

there is no time machine. We are not going back to wire hangers.
Thanks to blue states, there will be help for people seeking abortions in states that have outlawed it.
There is even a Dutch Doctor that will mail you the abortion pill for under $100.
Both the FDA and Biden are working on making these not just unenforceable - but legal.

You are an optimist Lou!
I think it's absolutely certain that those without means will take whatever means is available. No woman has time to hope she can find other options. There will be deaths both from self administered attempts as well as suicides

When I was 14 I spent time in a psych ward with a 12 year girl carrying a relatives fetus against her will. She was on 24 hour watch. I never knew what became of her. Her life was forever ruined just so another can come into the world with little hope that it will any better.

States are already trying to close the loophole that allows for the pills. The FDA and democrats having done anything to protect women so far, so we'll see what they actually do now,
Biden has agreed to an anti choice AG in I believe, Texas. Pelosi endores anti choice dem Henry Cueller .
So what does voting blue exactly do?

Biden Nominated an Anti-Abortion Judge, Then Asked Congress to Codify 'Roe'

“This is a complete slap in the face,” said one Democratic candidate for Senate.

www.them.us

Democratic Leadership Still Supporting the House’s Only Anti-Abortion Democrat

Henry Cuellar was the only Democrat to oppose codifying Roe v. Wade. He’s getting leadership support in his runoff election against a progressive pro-choice challenger.

prospect.org

Hasn't done much in a very long time other than stall what the republicans will do when they get in--and they certainly know how to get theirs.

 

[Mikkel]

Funny enough, most of the people dedicating their life to this case neither adopt or fostering kids themselves. They are also very often against gay people foster or adopt kids, denying needing kids a loving home just because the parents have the same gender. It is like the kids doesn’t matter at all in the end…

 

[silva]

Something I didn’t realize until today…part of the fallout of the reversal of roe v wade is the question of birth control. I did not realize that it carries over whereby the state gets to decide that certain means of birth control are illegal. I think it’s the iud and another form that is implanted in the arm. So women who have blood clotting disorders, who can’t take oral contraceptives, but who have had success with the arm implant, now to get to…what…just use condoms? This is so egregious imo. I want to throw something.
I did a quick google search to see if what I had seen online about this wasn’t just this person being overly dramatic. What I found is thousands (probably more) of women who are being denied having iuds and implants…women who are already using said methods and the effectiveness has expired…and they cannot get new iuds or implants in their state. I’m livid.

And just for the record, I am what I consider, a practicing Catholic. And abortion would be wrong for me (technically, but not saying I would never have one depending on the circumstances...and that would be between me and my God). But to force other women to carry a fetus to term against their will is infuriating to me. I still can’t believe this is where we are today. It is most definitely a women’s right issue.

Exactly. My grandmother was one of the most devout Catholics I've known. She hated the idea of abortion, but she knew far well the struggles woman face. She never condemned anyone for choosing abortion, and she had enough faith and belief in her God to know he was the one that oversaw those decisions. She also knew there had to be options, as in increased birth control, counseling, health care, financial support, sex ed.
I've seen none of that supported by these people who want to take away what is for many the last and only option

They're also the ones who will deny people the ability to adopt based on orientation

 

[PTree15]

In any kind of debate, discussion, or argument, unless everyone is of the same religion, bringing up god is completely pointless.
I don't even believe in god, so bringing him up does not help support your argument. You must base your argument on something quite a bit better.
Obama said no one is Pro-Abortion. People who are pro-choice are pro-women's rights.
And judging by the Republican's record, they are not Pro-Life. they are anti-women's rights.

For me it has nothing to do with the fetus. It has everything to do with taking a way the right for a woman to control her own body/destiny.

Exactly.

 

[Lou]

You are an optimist Lou!

Yes, I am. I don't believe that is a character fault. As Lee Child said, hope for the best, plan for the worst.

I believe I cited this article one time before but can find ways to get an aboriton - even in Texas. The article states that out of state travel and abortion pills were frequently used.

Yes, sure there are some women who can't afford to go out of town or even the abortion pill but I bet many of them can find aid for either. I've been reading from multiple sources that other state governments, companies, agencies and organizations are all mobilizing.

I am an optimist and frequently look for the silver lining. In this case, Roe and Cassey were always weak. We always needed legislation to codify women's rights. Pro Choice Politicians may find that this gives them a little more support from their voters. And it may hold the legislature's feet to fire.

Yes, sure some women who need an abortion may not be able to get them. but that was already the case in many states (like Texas).

Maybe a little off topic but we can also reduce the need for abortions which might be something both sides can agree on. Colorado has had great results in providing reversible contraceptives (Hickenlooper for president?)

Most Women Denied Abortions by Texas Law Got Them Another Way (Published 2022)

New data suggests overall abortions declined much less than previously known, because women traveled out of state or ordered pills online.

www.nytimes.com

Colorado's success with increasing access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARC) | Department of Public Health & Environment

Colorado’s journey to national leadership in family planning and its success in improving health outcomes while lowering state costs are documented in this report. Read the January 2017 report: Taking the Unintend

cdphe.colorado.gov

 

[David3]

Colorado has had great results in providing reversible contraceptives (Hickenlooper for president?)

Colorado's success with increasing access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARC) | Department of Public Health & Environment

Colorado’s journey to national leadership in family planning and its success in improving health outcomes while lowering state costs are documented in this report. Read the January 2017 report: Taking the Unintend

cdphe.colorado.gov

.
Free IUD's? My wife told me that IUD's were/are a popular option for women in China. She seems to be happy with hers.
.

 

[Lou]

.
Free IUD's? My wife told me that IUD's were/are a popular option for women in China. She seems to be happy with hers.
.

There are risks. but the risks of pregnancy are greater.

 

[Mikkel]

If there came a test who could tell if the fetus were queer. Try to guess if the abortion ban had gotten a new rule….

 

[Lou]

If there came a test who could tell if the fetus were queer. Try to guess if the abortion ban had gotten a new rule….

Not so sure about that.

"Women of lower socioeconomic status and women of color in the United States have higher rates of abortion than women of higher socioeconomic status and White women."
-https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780732/

You'd think they would want more accessible abortions - to get rid of all the black and poor people.

I saw some guy on YouTube (I'll have to try and find it later). who was ticking off percentages and ranting. I think his conclusion was that we had to protect poor black women from abortions. Anyway I was sort of keeping track of his numbers on my fingers. I may have screwed up the math but according to this guy Black African Americas were headed for extinction. And we had to protect them just like we protect elephants.

Oh, I went and looked and couldn't find That Guy. But I found This Guy.

 

[Mikkel]

Health care worker talking about her experience

TikTok - Make Your Day

vm.tiktok.com

 

[vegan89]

A question for pro lifers:

Do you think a first trimester fetus experiences more suffering in the brief moment of abortion than a woman does over the course of 9 months of being forced to carry a pregnancy to term and give birth?

Even if we grant that a first trimester fetus is an individual life that feels pain it's a total dodge to pretend that doesn't have to be weighed against the woman's suffering.

You don't have to weigh it against the woman's suffering if you acknowledge the fetus is innocent in this situation. It didn't ask to be put there. Actions taken by others put it there.

Who is at fault for the situation matters.

Being cruel to the innocent to protect the interests of some of those responsible for putting the innocent fetus in that situation in the first place... does that sound ethical? Does that sound like justice? Those who think we should weigh the suffering of the fetus against the suffering of the woman apparently seem to think so.

I hope they keep Roe overturn as woman needs to learn more responsibility and morals. If you do not want a baby do not have sex simple as that.

Or you could just have sex while not wanting a baby and be responsible enough to use enough contraceptives to ensure you never get or cause a pregnancy. Responsible enjoyment of your sexuality, in other words. (With the understanding, of course, that if you fail to use enough contraceptive methods to prevent a pregnancy from happening... you are responsible for caring for the fetus which results from your actions).

This is why I swayed away from being vegan. Woman has not gotten their rights taken away. Its time to make other ways to not have an abortion. I though being vegan was to stand against victims. There is a victim in an abortion and its the unborn baby.

Why would you sway away from being vegan just because of holding such views? That doesn't seem logical. It's possible to be both pro-life and vegan.