Unpopular Opinions Society

[das_nut]

I don't think that buying a leather purse secondhand squares with my ethics. It does of course cause less harm than buying a new leather bag would, but some other shopper now can't buy the secondhand purse because I have it now.

If I thought that it was honestly the case that buying a used leather belt would cause someone to run out and buy a new leather belt, I'd argue against it.

But have you been inside a thrift store lately? Have you looked at the industry? The problem, for the most part, aren't too few donations - its too many. Americans love to consume, consume, consume. We generate a lot of used items that are in acceptable condition, and those items that don't sell are disposed of in several ways - turning them into rags, or shipping them off to other countries (which has its pros and cons - it provides cheap clothing, but that cheap clothing destroys local industries, and it appears that we've been shipping so much cheap clothing to some places that the locals are quite picky about what is fashionable and what is not.

How about this? Give your nice leather, wool, or fur things away to friends who have already admired them, and tell them you can no longer have them around because going vegan has changed the way you view them. Maybe you will plant a vegan seed in their heads, as well as avoiding tossing it into a landfill. (As if keeping it or tossing it into a landfill are the only available options.)

We're in a country that already takes good, wearable clothing and turns it into rags. I assumed that veganism would be concerned about how all this waste leads to animal suffering and death, but I'm learning I'm very, very wrong. Veganism doesn't care, and prefers new clothing to be manufactured (with all the resulting impact on animals) instead of used clothing to be worn.

I disagree with that.

Perhaps I care too much about animals to be a real vegan.

On the plus side, one of my cookbooks (with the misleading title "How it All Vegan") seems to be written by another non-Vegan, since she talks about wearing a used leather belt.

 

[Pickle Juice]

Perhaps I care too much about animals to be a real vegan.

But not too much to refuse to eat their corpses or wear their skins? Makes sense to me.

 

[das_nut]

But not too much to refuse to eat their corpses or wear their skins? Makes sense to me.

In limited circumstances, yes. If I order a vegan bagel and bite into it and taste egg, I'm not going to tell them to throw it into the trash and make me another one.

Nor will I support the wasteful manufacture of new clothing if the alternative is a used leather belt or pair of leather shoes (with some exceptions).

If the world was a different place, and if my buying a pair of used leather shoes made it likely that someone else would end up buying a new pair of leather shoes, I wouldn't do it. But we're awash in cheap used clothes. There's too much - so much that even the bulk used clothing business (where items are sold by the pound or the ton) has seen prices drop drastically - to the point where it is beginning to be more expensive to sort unwanted used clothing before selling it in bulk.

I can't really say it's ethical for me to encourage the manufacture of new clothing when there's so much going to waste, vegan or not. Yes, I'd prefer to buy used vegan clothing, and that's what I tend to do. But some used items tend to be most frequently non-vegan. There's probably a thrift store with a used pair of vegan dress shoes, but odds are you won't find it.

 

[Ansciess]

Perhaps I care too much about animals to be a real vegan.

Re. your aggressive attitude, I'm not sure why you're looking so hard to pick a fight with people who probably agree with you about most things animal and environment related. I'll bet you're more conciliatory towards actual meat eaters. Or how about the people on here who actually go out and buy factory farmed/new animal products (i.e. not the "about to be wasted" kind). Why don't you go after them if you care so much about animals?

 

[Moll Flanders]

I have met environmentalists that have no problem with using animals as food or clothing so the green issues alone don't always have strong links with vegan principles although obviously trying to reduce, reuse and recycle is often something vegans and environmentalists have in common.

 

[das_nut]

Re. your aggressive attitude, I'm not sure why you're looking so hard to pick a fight with people who probably agree with you about most things animal and environment related.

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just think it's really weird to not consider the amount of animal suffering and death that goes into creating new things, even vegan things. Shouldn't vegans look at the big picture?

 

[ledboots]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just think it's really weird to not consider the amount of animal suffering and death that goes into creating new things, even vegan things. Shouldn't vegans look at the big picture?

Vegans are all individuals and we can make our own adult decisions, thank you very much. Vegans SHOULD look at whatever picture we flipping want to, honestly. You keep saying the same things; fine, wear used leather shoes, call yourself a vegan, be happy.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I won't wear used shoes. I'm all for thrift store shopping and reusing, but shoes? Somebody's grody feet were in them. GROSS! No foot std's for me, thanks.

 

[RabbitLuvr]

Vegans are all individuals and we can make our own adult decisions, thank you very much. Vegans SHOULD look at whatever picture we flipping want to, honestly. You keep saying the same things; fine, wear used leather shoes, call yourself a vegan, be happy.

YES.

I won't wear used shoes. I'm all for thrift store shopping and reusing, but shoes? Somebody's grody feet were in them. GROSS! No foot std's for me, thanks.

My feet are disgusting. I wouldn't wear someone else's gross shoes, their feet could be as bad as mine, or worse!

 

[kibbleforlola]

My feet are disgusting. I wouldn't wear someone else's gross shoes, their feet could be as bad as mine, or worse!

Or worse! What if that person had a foot fetish? You could be stepping in...you know.

 

[Alice-Bee]

Or worse! What if that person had a foot fetish? You could be stepping in...you know.

My friend was selling shoes on eBay and some guy emailed to ask her to wear them and get them dirty if he won them, ew.

 

[Pickle Juice]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just think it's really weird to not consider the amount of animal suffering and death that goes into creating new things, even vegan things. Shouldn't vegans look at the big picture?

I think it's even more weird that you are assuming that vegans don't look at the big picture. You are trying to take the stance that because the definition of veganism does not take the environment into account in developing it, vegans on here are going "yeeaaaaahhhh! I can abuse the environment even more than Hummer driving triple-Whopper eating "I throw my socks away after one wearing' carnists do, because there's nothing in the Vegan Rule Book that says I have to care about the environment!!!"

Which is almost as ridiculous as claiming that by doing something that isn't vegan, you are actually more vegan than vegans. (Re eating meat that will otherwise be thrown in the trash.)

 

[Ansciess]

I'm not trying to pick a fight. I just think it's really weird to not consider the amount of animal suffering and death that goes into creating new things, even vegan things. Shouldn't vegans look at the big picture?

I think saying you care too much about animals to be a real vegan because you buy leather shoes is picking a fight. I'm still asking why you don't go after the people on here who actually go out and buy factory farmed/new animal products (i.e. not the "about to be wasted" kind), since you care so deeply about animals and want to confront those you don't think care about animals enough. I can point you in the direction if you haven't noticed. It's typical to go after the vegans for some perceived inconsistency, while leaving those who are actually buying new, unnecessary, and unquestionably cruel animal products alone.

Also, maybe the "big picture" is the political statement that humans do not need and should not use killed animal products, even if they would "go to waste" if some human doesn't consume them. Your actions say that it's really o.k. to casually use and consume animals, if you can make the case for some marginal environmental good.

 

[das_nut]

Also, maybe the "big picture" is the political statement that humans do not need and should not use killed animal products, even if they would "go to waste" if some human doesn't consume them. Your actions say that it's really o.k. to casually use and consume animals, if you can make the case for some marginal environmental good.

Is it better for my actions to say that used leather goods are only fit for the dump, and that I should not even consider the harm that comes to animals in the manufacture and transportation of new vegan goods? It seems like if I forgo reducing and reusing, I'm treating animals like disposable products. Seems horrible to me. It also seems like the attitude that a lot of non-veg*ns have towards animals.

I understand why some people wouldn't want to wear dead things, but once something is killed and used once, I don't think reuse contributes to further deaths. While manufacturing of new goods do contribute to further deaths.

After all, as I already pointed out earlier, most people aren't stripping the paint from their homes, even though much paint is non-vegan. You can buy vegan paint, so there's no excuse. Yet most veg*ns seem to have no problem with the casual use and consumption of animals in that regards. I understand and perfectly accept the argument that the paint in your home is already used, and no additional animals will die because you leave the paint on the walls.

Veg*ns are already drawing their own line when it comes to what animal products they'll use and not use. I'm just drawing it at a different point, but with the same intentions (to minimize animal suffering and death).

 

[Blobbenstein]

why stop at paint?

I'm sure you can find animal products in all sorts of places in your home.....might as well tear the whole thing down and rebuild.

 

[das_nut]

why stop at paint?

I'm sure you can find animal products in all sorts of places in your home.....might as well tear the whole thing down and rebuild.

I'm guessing that the "no animal products" vegan answer to that is the practicality clause - it isn't practical for most people to rebuild their homes with all non-vegan materials.

For the "reduce animal suffering" veganism, it's obvious - the animals used in your home are already dead, and its unlikely that such use is going to drive the further exploitation of animals.

I'll note that for the "reduce animal suffering" vegan should be opposed to rebuilding a house even if it is practical (for example, if a person is rich enough to be able to do so without putting themselves in financial harm), since the "vegan" building materials are likely to cause indirect animal suffering.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Anyway, if a restaurant brings you some egg with your food, and you eat it, then they will just think it is fine to put egg with your food, won't they?

 

[Envy]

Anyway, if a restaurant brings you some egg with your food, and you eat it, then they will just think it is fine to put egg with your food, won't they?

Not unless they want to be sued.

 

[das_nut]

Anyway, if a restaurant brings you some egg with your food, and you eat it, then they will just think it is fine to put egg with your food, won't they?

Does it? If it's a good restaurant, I'd imagine they'd want to avoid mistakes. If it's a bad restaurant, I'd recommend avoiding eating there.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Well they wouldn't know they had made a mistake, unless you tell them....they might just think that vegans eat egg.


Then telling them that vegans don't eat eggs, and proceeding to eat the egg, might confuse them.