Vitamin B12

[Lou]

AGAIN, I need to point out that eating soil or bacteria won't help you with B12. The bacteria produce B12 in our larger intestine. The site for B12 absorption is in our small intestine.

True herbivores solve this problem with the fact that they have rumens and cecums. Primates solve this problem by eating bugs and sometimes their own feces. Rabbits will eat their own feces in order to get nutrients that were not available the first time through.

Before we could synthesize B12 there were no true vegans - just vegetarians. Eggs and milk can provide adequate amounts of B12. And early man probably ate bugs.

 

[Luis Halson]

I totally recommend a supplement, otherwise you will get what happened to TofuRobot. It doesn't hurt to take some pills every day. Also, I recommend taking a zinc supplement as well, as meat is high in this and vegetarian/vegan diets have lower quantities of zinc

 

[David3]

Just because a diet seems "natural" doesn't make it nutritionally-complete.

Until the modern era of processed and junk food, everyone ate a "natural" diet. Nevertheless, nutrient deficiencies still occurred.

• Pellagra (vitamin B3 deficiency) used to be epidemic in the United States: Pellagra in the United States: a historical perspective. - PubMed - NCBI. At that time, the cause of pellagra was not known.
• According to the United Nations World Health Organization, iodine deficiency is the most prevalent cause of brain damage worldwide: WHO | Micronutrient deficiencies . That's why salt is now fortified with iodine ("iodized salt") - forget that un-iodized pink Himalayan salt.
• Worldwide, staple foods and beverages are fortified with nutrients in order to address regional deficiencies: https://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/guide_food_fortification_micronutrients.pdf

Image below: Skin lesions on the hands, caused by pellagra (vitamin B3 deficiency). Pellagra was epidemic in the Southern U.S. during the early part of the 20th century.




Nature doesn't "provide" an ideal diet. Historically, as long as a person was healthy enough to survive and reproduce, that was sufficient.
.

 

[David3]

I totally recommend a supplement, otherwise you will get what happened to TofuRobot. It doesn't hurt to take some pills every day. Also, I recommend taking a zinc supplement as well, as meat is high in this and vegetarian/vegan diets have lower quantities of zinc

Hi Luis,

Unlike vitamin B12, zinc is found naturally in vegan foods. According to the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (the world's largest association of Registered Dietitians), zinc is found in whole grains, beans, nuts, and seeds: Support Your Health With Nutrition
.

 

[Unaonto]

I have consumed Vitamin B12 for a long time, in a whole complex of the supplements that my parents had given me.
In that complex there were all the vitamins needed for the body and reached for a whole year so that it was the best gift in my life.
After finishing them, I had already come to feel their lack and what effects of the body have been stopped so I have bought another vitamin complex that helped improve blood circulation and really helps so far enormous so I can not imagine life without them.

 

[fakei]

Just because a diet seems "natural" doesn't make it nutritionally-complete.

Until the modern era of processed and junk food, everyone ate a "natural" diet. Nevertheless, nutrient deficiencies still occurred.

• Pellagra (vitamin B3 deficiency) used to be epidemic in the United States: Pellagra in the United States: a historical perspective. - PubMed - NCBI. At that time, the cause of pellagra was not known.
• According to the United Nations World Health Organization, iodine deficiency is the most prevalent cause of brain damage worldwide: WHO | Micronutrient deficiencies . That's why salt is now fortified with iodine ("iodized salt") - forget that un-iodized pink Himalayan salt.
• Worldwide, staple foods and beverages are fortified with nutrients in order to address regional deficiencies: https://www.who.int/nutrition/publications/guide_food_fortification_micronutrients.pdf

Image below: Skin lesions on the hands, caused by pellagra (vitamin B3 deficiency). Pellagra was epidemic in the Southern U.S. during the early part of the 20th century.

View attachment 20594


Nature doesn't "provide" an ideal diet. Historically, as long as a person was healthy enough to survive and reproduce, that was sufficient.
.

People were already eating processed food in the early 20th century as it can bee seen in Buster Keaton's movie The Navigator. Also the issue of fresh food versus salted food, like salted meat, dates back to the Middle Ages.

It seems pellagra was caused by the use of maize as staple food and that was the cause of the epidemic.

Whole grains like rice are rich in B3.

Jeff Nelson at Vegsource points out in some videos that some agricultural diets that produced more centenarians than average, were also deficient in some vitamins, so it might not be big deal if the person is somewhat short in some vitamins and minerals.

I totally recommend a supplement, otherwise you will get what happened to TofuRobot. It doesn't hurt to take some pills every day. Also, I recommend taking a zinc supplement as well, as meat is high in this and vegetarian/vegan diets have lower quantities of zinc

There are studies showing that vitamin intake can be associated with cancer, so this needs to be weighed in. People should think twice before going around self medicating with vitamins. This is not to say people who aren't able to eat a balanced diet should not supplement, what they shouldn't is do it carelessly.

Is high vitamin B12 status a cause of lung cancer?

Vitamin B supplementation can have side effects for human health, including cancer risk. We aimed to elucidate the role of vitamin B12 in lung cancer aetiology via direct measurements of pre-diagnostic circulating vitamin B12 concentrations in a nested ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Lou]

There are studies showing that vitamin intake can be associated with cancer, so this needs to be weighed in. People should think twice before going around self medicating with vitamins. This is not to say people who aren't able to eat a balanced diet should not supplement, what they shouldn't is do it carelessly.

Is high vitamin B12 status a cause of lung cancer?

Vitamin B supplementation can have side effects for human health, including cancer risk. We aimed to elucidate the role of vitamin B12 in lung cancer aetiology via direct measurements of pre-diagnostic circulating vitamin B12 concentrations in a nested ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I had just finished skimming the article when a bell went off. Hadn't I read somewhere an article that critiqued that study or one like it? Oh yes. And here it is.

Vitamin B supplements linked to lung cancer – here’s why you probably don’t need to worry

A new study has found a link between high doses of vitamin B6 and B12 and lung cancer – but only in men.

theconversation.com

 

[fakei]

I had just finished skimming the article when a bell went off. Hadn't I read somewhere an article that critiqued that study or one like it? Oh yes. And here it is.

Vitamin B supplements linked to lung cancer – here’s why you probably don’t need to worry

A new study has found a link between high doses of vitamin B6 and B12 and lung cancer – but only in men.

theconversation.com

There are several studies. From your article:

But if massive doses of individual supplements of B6 and B12 do indeed promote cancer, this is not the first time that mega doses of vitamins have been seen to cause harm. Nutrients that are likely to prevent cancer when eaten in the form of foods, may cause harm when taken as purified supplements. For example, beta-carotene is the precursor form of vitamin A, which is found in fruits and vegetables.


Eating plenty of fruit and vegetables containing beta-carotene can help to prevent cancers, but taking high dose supplements of it is linked with an increase in incidence of lung cancer in smokers.


The World Cancer Research Fund recommends that, in order to prevent cancer, we should aim to meet nutritional needs through diet alone and not depend on supplements. Besides, current dietary intakes of vitamins B6 and B12 in the UK give no cause for concern. Most of us don’t need any extra vitamin B6 or B12, let alone the high doses of vitamins B6 or B12 examined in this study.


It is easy to get enough B6 from a varied and balanced diet. Good sources include chicken, fish, liver, pork, eggs, milk, soybeans, wholegrains, peanuts and walnuts. A high intake of B6 from food may be associated with lower risk of cancer.

 

[Brian W]

I'm taking a daily vegan multi that contains 600% B12. My main worry with it is the Iron content seems a bit high (12mg) if you are also eating beans and greens as you should be. I'll keep a check on symptoms and if anything seems wrong, I'll stop taking them and see a doctor.

 

[Lou]

I'm taking a daily vegan multi that contains 600% B12. My main worry with it is the Iron content seems a bit high (12mg) if you are also eating beans and greens as you should be. I'll keep a check on symptoms and if anything seems wrong, I'll stop taking them and see a doctor.

You can only absorb 25 - 33% of the RDA at one time. After that, the abortion rate drops to 1%. So you get the first let's call it 30% then you get 1% of 570%. which is.... (calculating) only 5.7%. For a total of something around 36% of the RDA.

Try for three or four regular doses per day or a much higher dose once a day. Something like 10,000% of the RDA.

Our bodies have a built-in warning for iron toxicity. If your stools turn black and become hard you are probably excreting iron. That happened to me when I was taking 12 mg of iron in a regular vitamin.

My multi (DEVA tiny tablets ) 6 mcg of B12 and 9mg of iron. then I have 3 or 4 servings of fortified plant milk each day.

According to Cronometer, I hit all my goals every day except for Magnesium and Potassium. ( I know - more potatoes )

 

[Brian W]

You can only absorb 25 - 33% of the RDA at one time. After that, the abortion rate drops to 1%. So you get the first let's call it 30% then you get 1% of 570%. which is.... (calculating) only 5.7%. For a total of something around 36% of the RDA.

Try for three or four regular doses per day or a much higher dose once a day. Something like 10,000% of the RDA.

Our bodies have a built-in warning for iron toxicity. If your stools turn black and become hard you are probably excreting iron. That happened to me when I was taking 12 mg of iron in a regular vitamin.

My multi (DEVA tiny tablets ) 6 mcg of B12 and 9mg of iron. then I have 3 or 4 servings of fortified plant milk each day.

According to Cronometer, I hit all my goals every day except for Magnesium and Potassium. ( I know - more potatoes )

My vegan multi has 15 mcg B12. I think in some cases the swedish RDA is different to the international RDA (If it is international) My stools have been fine until now so fingers crossed..... I have no problem at all with more potatoes if I ever need more.

 

[fakei]

 

[Lou]

Over the years my B-12 strategy has changed quite a bit.

My last strategy was 1000 mg a day. Cyanocobalamin
and I just finished my bottle.
I can just reorder Nature's Bounty, 200 caps for $20.
That's like a 6 month supply. About $3/month.

Before I do that - does anyone have a better suggestion.

 

[Roy R]

Over the years my B-12 strategy has changed quite a bit.

My last strategy was 1000 mg a day. Cyanocobalamin
and I just finished my bottle.
I can just reorder Nature's Bounty, 200 caps for $20.
That's like a 6 month supply. About $3/month.

Before I do that - does anyone have a better suggestion.

What about injections?

However here is some info. to chew on with regards to B12 Vitamins, Minerals, and Other Nutrients << Vegan Living << ADAPTT :: Animals Deserve Absolute Protection Today and Tomorrow

 

[silva]

Over the years my B-12 strategy has changed quite a bit.

My last strategy was 1000 mg a day. Cyanocobalamin
and I just finished my bottle.
I can just reorder Nature's Bounty, 200 caps for $20.
That's like a 6 month supply. About $3/month.

Before I do that - does anyone have a better suggestion.

Capsules, not sublingual? I take Natures Bounty drops--or Walgreens brand now which is cheaper.
Dr Greger advises 1000 a day, cyanocobalamin, for those over 65.
Changed up the link--from BiteSize!--

How to Get Vitamin B12 on a Plant-Based Vegan Diet | Dr. Michael Greger of Nutritionfacts.org

Worried about getting enough Vitamin B12? Wondering if you should supplement? Dr. Michael Greger has the answers for a plant-based vegan diet!

bitesizevegan.org

 

[Lou]

Capsules, not sublingual? I take Natures Bounty drops--or Walgreens brand now which is cheaper.
Dr Greger advises 1000 a day, cyanocobalamin, for those over 65.
Changed up the link--from BiteSize!--

How to Get Vitamin B12 on a Plant-Based Vegan Diet | Dr. Michael Greger of Nutritionfacts.org

Worried about getting enough Vitamin B12? Wondering if you should supplement? Dr. Michael Greger has the answers for a plant-based vegan diet!

bitesizevegan.org

Thanks Silva. I knew you would come thru. I almost PMed you directly but I thought maybe this information could be interesting or helpful to more people. And maybe get someone else chiming in for advice.

Yep as a senior I'm going with Dr G's advice too

Don't know about sublinguals. I know what they are. I take melatonin sublingually. I'll look into the drops.

I do find capsules very convenient.

 

[silva]

Thanks Silva. I knew you would come thru. I almost PMed you directly but I thought maybe this information could be interesting or helpful to more people. And maybe get someone else chiming in for advice.

Yep as a senior I'm going with Dr G's advice too

Don't know about sublinguals. I know what they are. I take melatonin sublingually. I'll look into the drops.

I do find capsules very convenient.

Something about mixing with saliva....and taking on an empty stomach.. i'll see if i can find the links.
I used to buy the tablets that dissolve under the tongue but they had like a rice paper at the end I took a dislike to-it dissolved, just weird
I just like the raspberry taste of the drops, it's my Sat morning thing

 

[Brian W]

Although sublingual B-12 — a form placed under the tongue and allowed to dissolve — is often promoted for better absorption, there does not appear to be much evidence for this. In fact, one clinical study comparing the same amount of B-12 given orally or under the tongue found they were equally effective at correcting B-12 deficiency over a two-month period.

Which Is Better? Sublingual B-12 vs. Vitamin B-12 Pills. - ConsumerLab.com

According to the National Institutes of Health, there is no evidence that sublingual forms of B-12 are absorbed more efficiently than any other forms.

The Difference in Sublingual and Regular Vitamin B12

 

[silva]

Which Is Better? Sublingual B-12 vs. Vitamin B-12 Pills. - ConsumerLab.com


The Difference in Sublingual and Regular Vitamin B12

Well, I'm going with Dr Gregers research. Consumer Labs didn't mention the testing they used either

why the cheaper form (cyanocobalamin) is superior to the more expensive form (methylcobalamin), why you can’t just take it in a multivitamin because of the analogs, and you shouldn’t just take it in a pill you just swallow (because it needs to mix with that saliva protein),

The Best Type of Vitamin B12: Cyanocobalamin or Methylcobalamin? | NutritionFacts.org

For prevention and treatment of vitamin B12 deficiency, cyanocobalamin in chewable, sublingual, or liquid forms (rather than in a multivitamin) is best under most circumstances.

nutritionfacts.org

 

[Brian W]

Well, I'm going with Dr Gregers research. Consumer Labs didn't mention the testing they used either

The Best Type of Vitamin B12: Cyanocobalamin or Methylcobalamin? | NutritionFacts.org

For prevention and treatment of vitamin B12 deficiency, cyanocobalamin in chewable, sublingual, or liquid forms (rather than in a multivitamin) is best under most circumstances.

nutritionfacts.org

Of course. There is no harm in it but I'm sticking to my multis and fortified oat milk and probably saving money in the process.