Why should married women change their names?

[Ansciess]

Not true everywhere.

Like in Canada, where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2003 and you have most - perhaps all - all the legal benefits to marriage in a domestic partnership.

So then no women in Canada should get married.

I don't know, I guess if that's what you think, fine, but I don't know why people shouldn't get married.

 

[Ansciess]

Yep. We can question every decision every woman has ever made ever; because they pretty much all loop back around to patriarchy.

I dunno, I'm just talking about the tradition of females-only changing last names when they get married.

I don't personally think that every decision any woman ever makes loops back around to patriarchy, but it's interesting that you think so.

 

[Renee1]

I don't know, I guess if that's what you think, fine, but I don't know why people shouldn't get married.

Using your very own reasoning, of course. It's a tradition rooted in patriarchy and women mustn't participate in it.

 

[kibbleforlola]

Again, all this may be true on an individual basis, but obviously not across the board, otherwise roughly half of couples whould choose the wife's name, while half would choose the husband's.

I think it's hard to argue that all of these choices which result in almost all women taking their husband's name upon marriage and virtually no man taking his wife's name occur in a societal vacuum. There's a societal expectation that women will take their husband's name, and most people adhere to that expectation.

Right, but there is a difference between framing the issue as this is something we should think about, and encourage other women to think about and something we should judge women for for making what we perceive to be the incorrect choice.

 

[Ansciess]

Using your very own reasoning, of course. It's a tradition rooted in patriarchy and women mustn't participate in it.

Nope. I don't think that every tradition that patriarchy ever embraced is bad. I named a specific one. You are generalizing.

 

[Renee1]

So, women can participate in patriarchal traditions and keep your approval and their feminist badges, so long as it fits into your entirely arbitrary categories of acceptable and not acceptable?

 

[Ansciess]

Right, but there is a difference between framing the issue as this is something we should think about, and encourage other women to think about and something we should judge women for for making what we perceive to be the incorrect choice.

I think you are hypersensitive to the delivery of the message.

I think the message could be framed in the most careful way possible, and many people would still take great offense and feel judged. The same way that even mentioning the word "vegan" automatically makes many omnis feel judged and defensive.

But - a judgement about taking one's husband's last name! OMG!

Big deal.

 

[Ansciess]

So, women can participate in patriarchal traditions and keep your approval and their feminist badges, so long as it fits into your entirely arbitrary categories of acceptable and not acceptable?

When did I ever say anything about feminist badges?

And, because I provide reasons for my opinions, they are not entirely arbitrary. However, they are mine.

 

[Renee1]

When did I ever say anything about feminist badges?

And, because I provide reasons for my opinions, they are not entirely arbitrary. However, they are mine.

They are absolutely arbitrary because you are not applying your reasons to things (like marriage) that fall under the same patriarchal umbrella.

 

[kibbleforlola]

I think you are hypersensitive to the delivery of the message.

Um, no.

But - a judgement about taking one's husband's last name! OMG!

Big deal.

Um, yes; it is kind of a big deal. In a world where every choice a woman makes is judged to its tiniest detail, adding something so superfluous as whether a woman should choose to change her name or not to the pile can be a big deal.

 

[Ansciess]

They are absolutely arbitrary because you are not applying your reasons to things (like marriage) that fall under the same patriarchal umbrella.

No, the act of marriage in and of itself is not problematic to me, for women specifically. There may be features of it pertaining to the law in some areas, but I can't make the general statement.

The criticisms at this point that I might have of the institution of marriage generally is not specific to women, but would apply equally for men, and gay people of either gender.

 

[kibbleforlola]

No, the act of marriage in and of itself is not problematic to me, for women specifically.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

 

[Ansciess]

Um, yes; it is kind of a big deal. In a world where every choice a woman makes is judged to its tiniest detail, adding something so superfluous as whether a woman should choose to change her name or not to the pile can be a big deal.

Gosh, I'm a female, and I've somehow managed to deal with this. Because I have learned to claim my choices and not collapse if someone generally thinks women ought best or not to change their names upon marriage. They can have their opinions.

 

[Ansciess]

Ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Yeah, and I do see issues with the name change (this was by way of illustrating whether my thoughts were "entirely arbitrary").

You are very tied in to what I think.

 

[Renee1]

Oh, the good old adage of being "hypersensitive". Yes, when a woman reacts negatively to something someone is saying it can't possibly be that she has reason to react that way - she must be letting her emotions get the best of her!

Perhaps, and maybe I'm just being hypersensitive, women are fed up with being told from everyfuckingwhere and everyone that they are incapable of making their own decisions about their lives, bodies and well-being? Perhaps, and maybe I'm just crazy, I know what I'm ******* doing when I make up my mind about something and it's none of anyone's business what I wear, how I look, what I do with my life?

My last name is my mother's, who did her very best with what little she had. My fiancé's last name is his father's, who is an incredible man and huge part of why my fiancé is the kindest person I've ever met. We are becoming a family and our names will reflect where I have come from (which wasn't great but I know she tried) and where my future is. Our adoptive children will know this and be a part of this.

Or maybe I'm just hypersensitive about women being attacked from every end, idk.

 

[Ansciess]

oh brother

you know I'm a female too, right?

 

[kibbleforlola]

Honestly, if you weren't interested in hearing what other people think, or why some people might disagree with you, why start a thread on it?

Feminism isn't an echo chamber, you know.

ETA: "you know I'm a female too, right" so...we're supposed to give you a pass for being a woman, but you won't give other women a pass. At least, that's what I'm getting from this.

 

[Renee1]

oh brother
you know I'm a female too, right?

Yes, and females have no internalised misogyny whatsoever.

 

[Freesia]

I agree that perhaps the tradition of taking on the wife's name should be brought into being. Or perhaps name female children with the wife's surname and male children with the husband's surname.

 

[Freesia]

But I will probably take on the husbands name if I ever got one. I hear they are going cheap at the market this weekend, a 50% off sale.