Your vegan children

[Calliegirl]

it might be horrible being brought up as a vegan, never making the choice yourself. When you grow up, what do you do? You might not want to eat animal products, but you never made the choice, or maybe made the commitment. Would one eat a hamburger just to try to see if you can make an actual choice. Maybe they wouldn't want to eat a hamburger, or cheese or egg....but it was never really a choice.

When my daughter was in school she was interested in tasting the meat in the cafeteria, and I told her that was her decision to make. She tried it and didn't like it. She never felt like she was missing out, and the other kids in school were actually jealous because she got a meat-free lunch that was better than the regular ones. She said the kids would always ask in the cafeteria for the same meal, but were told no. It's a shame that the kids were forced to eat a meat based meal when they showed a preference for the healthier one.

The only thing I regret is that I wasn't vegan at the time. I hadn't been a vegetarian that long and there weren't really any resources at the time (it was over 30 years ago), so I was learning as I went along.

It isn't horrible to raise children as vegans, or in a sugar free home, or in a home that never eats junk food or goes to McDonalds, or in a home that doesn't eat ice cream or pizza, etc. Providing them with a healthy diet is what's important. McDonalds is a staple for a lot of american families. Does that mean a kid is being deprived if they're never given the choice to eat a big mac?

 

[Blobbenstein]

Does that mean a kid is being deprived if they're never given the choice to eat a big mac?

I know vegan food can be nice, so I wasn't saying that they would be deprived, only that they might be deprived of deciding for themselves to be veg*n. Most veg*ns in the world, in the West anyway, made that choice for themselves, which makes it easier to face any difficulties...in an omnie world, where you can buy meat in most food shops...buying meat isn't seen as being on the same level as animal abuse.
Like at school, kids might ask why they were veg*n, and they might just say their parents make them, or repeat some reasons their parents told them.......I just don't see the point. Kids aren't mini-mes to do exactly as they're told, and what to think, and what beliefs to have.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I wonder if vegan parents will produce vegan kids (I hope they will) but I think some children might just lie to their parents when they are older. I actually know a few people who lie to their parents about their smoking habits because of their upbringing even when they are middle aged. When my husband was in hospital his mother insisted that he tick the box on the questionnaire for Catholic and he refused point blank as he doesn't have religious beliefs.

I don't think being vegan has to equal deprivation at all but if it is imposed on you I think it would be different and children might rebel when they become adults.

I wish we were at a stage when we had lots of people who were raised vegan and stayed vegan but not yet.

 

[Clueless Git]

so you didn't feel empowered. What did you feel?

Or did you indeed feel disappointed that you could no longer eat egg and cheese and be consistent with your beliefs, which is sort of what went through my feelings at the time,.

I was angry Blobbers.

I thought I'd cracked seeing through the omni lies BS when I went vegetarian.

It was only after I went vegan that I realised I'd fallen for a pile of omni lies and BS, again.

 

[flyingsnail]

I know vegan food can be nice, so I wasn't saying that they would be deprived, only that they might be deprived of deciding for themselves to be veg*n.

Parents decide all sorts of things for their kids.....why would this issue be any different? Are kids in the west, for example, being deprived because they aren't given dog or insects for dinner?

But I would be interested to know how many kids that were raised vegan stay vegan as adults. I reckon, at this point in time, the sample size would be pretty small.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Parents decide all sorts of things for their kids.....why would this issue be any different? Are kids in the west, for example, being deprived because they aren't given dog or insects for dinner?

as I said, I wasn't saying they would be deprive food wise, just that they may not get the chance to decide for themselves, to be vegan. If they don't decide for themselves, I think they are less likely to remain veg*n.

 

[Clueless Git]

If they don't decide for themselves, I think they are less likely to remain veg*n.

I see what you are saying there Blobbers and, from personal experience only, it's a valid point.

My own kiddies frequently questioned the choice made for them. It was an easy question to deal with though.

First it was explained that every parent, omni/veggie/vegan, has to make a decision for their child(ren) once weaning times arrives.

Second that the choice of choices available to parents are;

1. Choose for their kiddies to be involved in animal harm with the option to stop harming animals at a later date.

2. Choose for their kiddies NOT to be involved in animal harm with the option to start harming animals at a later date.

Then the issue of the childs own right to 'life long innocence', if they choose it, arises.

Option #2 preserves the child's choice to maintain lifelong abstension from animal harm, if they want that. It's a reversible option.

Option #1 is not reversible and any parent who chooses that has taken the child's choice for 'life long innocence' permanently away.

Basicaly I 'sold' the kiddies that the choice that had been made for them was the preservation of their innocence untill they could make decisions of their own. That it would always be their choice, and their choice alone, if they ever wished to throw their right to lifelong innocence away.

The power of that reasoning has been immense.

It put the decision straight back into the kiddies own hands from the very first day the kiddies awareness that decisions had been made arose.

Total ownership to the children; You were given the gift of innocence for life. It's your choice alone if you want to throw that gift away.

 

[Moll Flanders]

But I would be interested to know how many kids that were raised vegan stay vegan as adults. I reckon, at this point in time, the sample size would be pretty small.

Yes, exactly. I'm struggling to even think of one example in the vegans I've known.

 

[flyingsnail]

as I said, I wasn't saying they would be deprive food wise, just that they may not get the chance to decide for themselves, to be vegan. If they don't decide for themselves, I think they are less likely to remain veg*n.

But, as I said, this is true for many things....why is the parental choice to be vegan different than all the other choices western parents typically make? Parents "install" a vast array of culture in their children before they are cognitively ready to think critically about ethical, etc matters. Are western kids more likely to eat dog if they were never able to decide for themselves? Of course there is a difference here, not eating dog is part of the general culture and as such kids are unlikely to start eating dog. So what we are really talking about is a battle between the parents culture and the culture of mass society.

I think the degree to which kids stick with their parental culture, generally speaking, is a matter of how active the parent/child relationship is and to what degree the parents insulate the children from mass culture. I reckon you may think insulating your children may be depriving them of an ability to "decide for themselves" but I'm a big fan of insulating children from mass culture. Though for me this goes well beyond not eating meat, etc or not.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I suppose I have a different perspective than a lot of people here, in that I was raised as mainly vegetarian. So I am more able to imagine being brought up as totally veg, maybe. The only meat I ever remember consciously eating were a few sausages at my sister's party. And seeing the cold sausages sitting in lard, later after the party, and thinking about pig carcasses hanging up in a slaughterhouse, was enough for me to make that decision to go vegetarian.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I see what you are saying there Blobbers and, from personal experience only, it's a valid point.

My own kiddies frequently questioned the choice made for them. It was an easy question to deal with though.

First it was explained that every parent, omni/veggie/vegan, has to make a decision for their child(ren) once weaning times arrives.

Second that the choice of choices available to parents are;

1. Choose for their kiddies to be involved in animal harm with the option to stop harming animals at a later date.

2. Choose for their kiddies NOT to be involved in animal harm with the option to start harming animals at a later date.

Then the issue of the childs own right to 'life long innocence', if they choose it, arises.

Option #2 preserves the child's choice to maintain lifelong abstension from animal harm, if they want that. It's a reversible option.

Option #1 is not reversible and any parent who chooses that has taken the child's choice for 'life long innocence' permanently away.

Basicaly I 'sold' the kiddies that the choice that had been made for them was the preservation of their innocence untill they could make decisions of their own. That it would always be their choice, and their choice alone, if they ever wished to throw their right to lifelong innocence away.

The power of that reasoning has been immense.

It put the decision straight back into the kiddies own hands from the very first day the kiddies awareness that decisions had been made arose.

Total ownership to the children; You were given the gift of innocence for life. It's your choice alone if you want to throw that gift away.

I usually gloss over your posts as you seem to make very little sense but you just said that you raised your children vegetarian so as you know you must have contributed to massive amounts of animal harm if you fed them dairy and eggs so I don't understand what on earth this post means.

 

[Second Summer]

but you just said that you raised your children vegetarian so as you know you must have contributed to massive amounts of animal harm if you fed them dairy and eggs so I don't understand what on earth this post means.

I think he just hadn't quite seen the light yet, so this made sense at the time, before he had his vegan awakening. As an approach it could still be valid reasoning for vegans, though. I think that's what he's trying to say.

 

[Clueless Git]

I usually gloss over your posts as you seem to make very little sense but you just said that you raised your children vegetarian so as you know you must have contributed to massive amounts of animal harm if you fed them dairy and eggs so I don't understand what on earth this post means.

You should always gloss over my posts, Moll.

You are perfectly correct though. Vegetarians do contribute massively to animal harm.

Like all vegetarians I didn't know that at the time though.

 

[Clueless Git]

I think he just hadn't quite seen the light yet, so this made sense at the time, before he had his vegan awakening. As an approach it could still be valid reasoning for vegans, though. I think that's what he's trying to say.

Eggsactly.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I think he just hadn't quite seen the light yet, so this made sense at the time, before he had his vegan awakening. As an approach it could still be valid reasoning for vegans, though. I think that's what he's trying to say.

I think it is valid reasoning but he said he made that choice for his children when he didn't as he didn't raise them vegan so it doesn't make any sense. I was vegetarian until I was 30 so I understand that many people must have been vegetarian without realising what they were contributing to so I'm not disparaging him for not raising his kids vegan but he is contradicting himself. Whatever, it's not a big deal, it's just annoying to read.

Basicaly I 'sold' the kiddies that the choice that had been made for them was the preservation of their innocence untill they could make decisions of their own. That it would always be their choice, and their choice alone, if they ever wished to throw their right to lifelong innocence away.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I think the main thing, for raising kids, is that you can normalise a veg*n diet...for someone brought up with veg food as normal, there is less reason to reject that way of life. It is less alien, or not at all alien....all they then need to do is make the choice for themselves when they get older....like Moll said, if they always have a choice, then rebelling wouldn't focus on the diet, if there were any rebelling.

 

[Trinity]

When I was 20 years old, my brother went vegetarian because of my influence (he was 10 at the time). Started eating meat when he was in his late teens and was afraid to tell me, so lied about it for years! I was heartbroken that he felt he had to lie to me.

I then raised my son vegan - we have a very good relationship and I feel really thankful that he can be honest. Despite his upbringing he's now 15 and eats meat. It's his choice.

For anyone who thinks that I haven't been a good vegan advocate, then you'd be wrong. I've been a loving caring mother and offered a shining example of why we should make compassionate choices. His personality is very sociable and really likes to fit in with others. He's vegan at home (no meat or dairy allowed in the house) and often makes vegan choices outside of home too. He is also a great vegan cook and makes the most amazing dishes. He tells me that he eats meat and dairy when he's at friends. There isn't really anything I can do about it. We've had very long conversations about animals and compassion; and although he can see my perspective and partially agrees he is exploring something else right now. Maybe it's a phase... only he will decide that.

I felt quite a resistance to sharing on this thread... it feels quite vulnerable to talk about something so personal to me, especially after reading some of the comments here. I feel I might be judged negatively. But I also felt it more important to share 'JUST IN CASE' someone else out there is struggling with the choices that their children make when they grow up. I felt to post just in case it helps to know that despite the best intention in the world, we do not own our children and even with the best parenting in the world, they have to make their own choices. I don't feel as if I have failed as a parent, no matter how challenging it has been to accept. I did (and will continue to) my best. And for any of us, our best is all we can do.

 

[KLS52]

I felt quite a resistance to sharing on this thread... it feels quite vulnerable to talk about something so personal to me, especially after reading some of the comments here. I feel I might be judged negatively. But I also felt it more important to share 'JUST IN CASE' someone else out there is struggling with the choices that their children make when they grow up. I felt to post just in case it helps to know that despite the best intention in the world, we do not own our children and even with the best parenting in the world, they have to make their own choices. I don't feel as if I have failed as a parent, no matter how challenging it has been to accept. I did (and will continue to) my best. And for any of us, our best is all we can do.

I totally understand your reluctance. It's not without merit. I, personally, thank you for sharing.

 

[Moll Flanders]

I think the main thing, for raising kids, is that you can normalise a veg*n diet...for someone brought up with veg food as normal, there is less reason to reject that way of life. It is less alien, or not at all alien....all they then need to do is make the choice for themselves when they get older....like Moll said, if they always have a choice, then rebelling wouldn't focus on the diet, if there were any rebelling.

Yes, I think you can try to "impose" (for want of a better word) a vegan lifestyle on children but they have to adopt the vegan philosophy themselves.

My husband eats only vegetarian and vegan food now but there is no doubt in my mind that if we divorced he would go back to eating meat.

I thought of one example, River and Joaquin Phoenix and their entire family went vegan and I'm pretty sure they all stayed vegan.

River Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Joaquin Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Trinity]

The Pheonix family are such an inspiration. I always imagined that if you lived in a community or large family where everyone was vegan, it would be much easier to normalise the experience.

My husband eats only vegetarian and vegan food now but there is no doubt in my mind that if we divorced he would go back to eating meat.

When I got married the first time, my husband had gone vegetarian (for me). Infact I was vegan already at the time and when he asked me out on our first date, I said I wouldn't go out with anyone who ate meat. He gave up meat and asked me out again. I was so impressed (being young & naive) that someone would change their lifestyle just for me, that we got together and then after a while got married. After 3 and 1/2 years together I divorced him when my son was a baby. I realised that he did a lot of things just 'to get me' - which I fell for - BUT deep down he never cared about animals or ethics. Never understood them and then started complaining that I was over the top (and I was like - 'excuse me - I was like this when we met - remember!!!'). So in my early twenties I learned the importance of people adopting ethics themselves