News 2016 U.S. Presidential election - the highs and lows

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/18/opinion/sunday/the-afghan-war-quagmire.html
The war in Afghanistan has cost American taxpayers in excess of $800 billion — including $115 billion for a reconstruction effort, more than the inflation-adjusted amount the United States spent on the Marshall Plan. The Afghan government remains weak, corrupt and roiled by internal rivalries. The casualty rate for Afghan troops is unsustainable. The economy is in shambles. Resurgent Taliban forces are gaining ground in rural areas and are carrying out barbaric attacks in the heart of Kabul, the capital. Despite an international investment of several billion dollars in counternarcotics initiatives, the opium trade remains a pillar of the economy and a key source of revenue for the insurgency.

Neither Donald Trump nor Hillary Clinton has outlined a vision to turn around, or withdraw from, a flailing military campaign.
 
Amy SF said:
Dangerous blood thinner killed someone you know, and it'll naturally kill Hillary, too. :rolleyes:

Yeah...that's the equivalent of the guy who was told I was a vegetarian and was relieved when he was assured that I ate dairy, because someone he knew went off dairy and got really sick and had to be rushed to the hospital. :rolleyes:

It's just political fear mongering and pandering to the Hillary-haters and fence-sitters. :rolleyes:
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I think you are overlooking the operative word here.."dangerous"...

It is not the equivalent of the protein myth.
 
beancounter said:
Walking pneumonia may not be an issue, but this is:

Hillary Clinton Prescribed a Dangerous Blood-Thinner

My FIL's wife was on this medication. She died.

Some more information. Also, it would seem that Kaine is in better overall health than Hillary.
Doctor’s Letter: A Detailed Look at Hillary Clinton’s Health, Medications
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Would those who died from it have died from the condition they were trying to control if they didn't take it? Obviously those people had a serious enough condition that the benefits out weighed the risks.

All blood thinners are dangerous and carry their own risks...
Newer anticoagulants, including Eliquis, Pradaxa and Xarelto, have entered the market in recent years and, in some ways, are easier to use than Coumadin. Patients taking these drugs don’t need regular blood tests and don’t have to avoid certain foods.

But unlike Coumadin, the effects of which can be reversed with vitamin K, there currently is no antidote if patients taking the newer drugs begin bleeding uncontrollably.

Some doctors also are reluctant to use the new drugs on seniors, particularly those with multiple health problems, because they carry their own risks, including gastrointestinal bleeding...
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Popular Blood Thinner Coumadin Causing Deaths, Injuries at Nursing Homes

There are 25 million prescriptions written per year for Warfarin. I couldn't find the number of total deaths, just numbers here and there from nursing homes and hospitals, and most of those were from falls or incorrectly monitored patients. Maybe you can find one? But, from what I've seen, millions of people have taken it without any problems.

I agree that it is a dangerous drug, but it isn't deadly for most people, and is a life saver for most.
Warfarin reduces mortality for patients with heart failure and atrial fibrillation — dcriorg

Besides, if something were to happen to Hillary, Kaine would be fine as president, whereas both Trump and Pence would be nightmares.
 
Mischief said:
Oh, OK, a candidate' s racism is only an issue if he's running against a black person. Got it.
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Boy, did you twist that one in the worst possible way....:rolleyes:

Do I really need to explain? Ok then, with regard specifically to the 2016 election, any "issue" regarding Obama is completely irrelevant.

The only time Obama would matter is if he and Hillary (or even Obama and Trump) were caught in a love nest with their pants/skirt down.

But at least we would finally know once and for all if it were "Yuge" or not... :p
 
beancounter said:
Boy, did you twist that one in the worst possible way....:rolleyes:

Do I really need to explain? Ok then, with regard specifically to the 2016 election, any "issue" regarding Obama is completely irrelevant.

The only time Obama would matter is if he and Hillary (or even Obama and Trump) were caught in a love nest with their pants/skirt down.

But at least we would finally know once and for all if it were "Yuge" or not... :p
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YOU were the one who said that Trump's birtherism bandwagon was a "non-issue" in this campaign. I merely pointed out that it's an issue for anyone who cares whether a candidate is racist. For the same reason, I think that Trump's taking out full page ads advocating for the death penalty for the Central Park Five continues to be an issue, just as his mocking of a disabled person continues to be an issue, as do so many other things he has said and done which underscore his total lack of character.
 
Calliegirl said:
Would those who died from it have died from the condition they were trying to control if they didn't take it? Obviously those people had a serious enough condition that the benefits out weighed the risks.

All blood thinners are dangerous and carry their own risks...
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I'd broaden that and say that all medications carry their own risks.

Some of the most dangerous drugs are chemotherapy drugs, and yet their benefits outweigh their risks.
 
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beancounter said:
My FIL's wife was on this medication. She died.
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That's sort of like me saying:

My father was a farmer. He died.

I might come closer to creating a causal connection if I said: My father was a farmer who was exposed to chemical fertilizers and herbicides. He died of complications from cancer.

However, that still wouldn't create a real causal connection, since he died of a heart attack while walking out to get into the car to go to the hospital for his second round of chemotherapy. Also, he was in his late eighties, and anyone who lives long enough has a really good chance of getting cancer, no matter his/her job. Also, he had had significant heart issues for several decades prior to that.

Causal connections are a lot more difficult to establish than your statements.
 
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Mischief said:
That's sort of like me saying:

My father was a farmer. He died.

I might come closer to creating a causal connection if I said: My father was a farmer who was exposed to chemical fertilizers and herbicides. He died of complications from cancer.

However, that still wouldn't create a real causal connection, since he died of a heart attack while walking out to get into the car to go to the hospital for his second round of chemotherapy. Also, he was in his late eighties, and anyone who lives long enough has a really good chance of getting cancer, no matter his/her job. Also, he had had significant heart issues for several decades prior to that.

Causal connections are a lot more difficult to establish than your statements.
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It's a known to be dangerous period. Some are more dangerous than others, like this one in partticular...Not everyone dies from this med, but the my FIL example was used to show it can happen.
 
beancounter said:
It's a known to be dangerous period. Some are more dangerous than others, like this one in partticular...Not everyone dies from this med, but the my FIL example was used to show it can happen.
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Many millions of people (actually, about 20 million per year in the U.S. alone) don't die from this medicine. (And you still haven't given any information that establishes a causal link between your MIL's death and one drug that she was taking.)

I also read some of the other articles on that site, and found them quite amusing. I myself don't take medications except as a last resort, but I find these kinds of sites as counter productive as the anti-vaxers.
 
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I don't have a causal relation, that is simply what I was told by my FIL who got the information from the doctor.

What's really disturbing is that you will deny that there is any issue even when it's staring you in the face. the emails..she lied. No she wasn't convicted, but that may have to do more with political connections than anything else. Further she is careless with confidential data. And just because other politicians may have made the same mistake, doesn't make justify her actions.

Now we find that she's on blood thinners. What are the underlying cause of needing blood thinners?..stroke, heart attack, blood clots, etc. Blood thinners are not given to healthy people.... Perhaps webMD is more to your liking?
Warfarin and Other Blood Thinners for Heart Disease

She's far from perfect.. Yes, she is better than the alternative, but aren't you sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils?

I bring up articles on Hilary, because I see so many starry eyed people treat her like some sort of savior. She's not.

I don't bother with Trump articles that much because his flaws are painfully obvious.
 
I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils, I like Hillary. I don't think she's perfect, far from it, no candidate has been or ever will be perfect. I think she will do good things for this country. Although, if Michelle Obama were running, it would be a difficult choice.
 
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beancounter said:
She's far from perfect.. Yes, she is better than the alternative, but aren't you sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils?
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Honestly, I am. I don't "like" her. But I think she's more qualified. I'm pretty much jaded at this point, assuming I'm using the word correctly. I don't trust her, necessarily, but I don't trust our other option either. I'd rather have four years of the same/similar than take a chance on someone I see as a not very decent human being. Which isn't saying I think Hilary is a decent human being, but rather the lesser of two evils, as you say.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Calliegirl said:
I'm not voting for the lesser of two evils, I like Hillary. I don't think she's perfect, far from it, no candidate has been or ever will be perfect. I think she will do good things for this country. Although, if Michelle Obama were running, it would be a difficult choice.
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Seconded, including the part about Michelle Obama.

I want someone as President who is knowledgeable, has a decent temperament (i.e., doesn't act like a toddler), is a relatively decent human being, and roughly aligns with my own views on important issues.

I don't expect perfection, much less demand it; that's an immature person's game, because perfection doesn't exist.

IMO, Hillary is a better person (and more intelligent) than Bill, and I voted for him. She's more pragmatic than Jimmy Carter was, and that will make her a better President, even though I have the greatest respect for Jimmy Carter as a human being. (I also voted for Jimmy Carter.)

I was really torn between Hillary and Barack Obama in 2008. I ended up supporting Obama because of some of Bill's antics (and, frankly, I hope he stays well in the background if Hillary is elected), but the way she worked or Obama after he won the nomination earned my respect to the point that I was torn about my earlier decision.

If Sanders had won the nomination, I would happily vote for him. Hell, I would happily vote for Jeb Bush, or Kasisch, or a number of the others who ran for the Republican nomination, with Trump being the alternative.

There's part of me that is so fed up with the idiocy that I'm almost at the point that I would welcome a Trump win so that the one set can find out for themselves that no, he isn't going to be able to make Mexico pay for the wall that they want so much, and that the other set can experience that no, the choice between Trump and HRC and is not in any way, shape or form a choice between two even remotely equivalent "evils." Unfortunately, the rest of us, who don't need that particular learning experience, will have to suffer also.
 
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beancounter said:
Now we find that she's on blood thinners. What are the underlying cause of needing blood thinners?..stroke, heart attack, blood clots, etc. Blood thinners are not given to healthy people.... Perhaps webMD is more to your liking?
Warfarin and Other Blood Thinners for Heart Disease
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Really, what's your point, other than hoping that Hillary is going to drop dead?

Let's say you're right. Do you prefer Trump over Tim Kaine?

Trump is older than Hillary, by about two years, if I remember correctly. Your boy Bernie is older than Hillary also. As someone who is less than a decade younger than the oldest of those three, I can tell you that I'm well aware that we are all approaching the last years/ months/days of our lives.

If your concern is the mortality of the individuals occupying the Oval Office and you want to put an upper age limit on qualifying to be President, make that argument (not that you can, with a straight face, in light of your support for Sanders).

Eight President have died in office, four by assassination, four from natural causes. The country has managed to survive.

One of the four who died of natural causes had actual, severe, health problems at the time he was running for office, not just the figments of the fevered imaginations of people who hated him. His name was Franklin Roosevelt, and I guess we can all agree that his health problems should have absolutely disqualified him from becoming President. (<---- That, BTW, is sarcasm.)
 
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Mischief said:
There's part of me that is so fed up with the idiocy that I'm almost at the point that I would welcome a Trump win so that the one set can find out for themselves that no, he isn't going to be able to make Mexico pay for the wall that they want so much, and that the other set can experience that no, the choice between Trump and HRC and is not in any way, shape or form a choice between two even remotely equivalent "evils." Unfortunately, the rest of us, who don't need that particular learning experience, will have to suffer also.
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I've thought this too, the people voting for him absolutely deserve him as a president. Unfortunately, when things don't turn out as they expected they'll just blame someone else for it (Congress stood in the way, the Democrats sabotaged things, etc), and continue living in their conspiracy filled world while the rest of us suffer.
 
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