News 2016 U.S. Presidential election - the highs and lows

[Andy_T]

Unfortunately for NZ it means we now have a variety of right wing creeps there in the Parliament seats

... same in Germany and much of Europe.

But the idea has been (since the 18th century or so, but that is different by country) that a representation of all voters should be in charge of policy, not just that of the one or two leading parties.

Keeping the system as it is is a very convenient way for the 2 parties in power to continue to exclude other voices. I see that change needs to happen, but I am unsure how to bring it about, as those in power have no incentive at all to change it .
Same about the "electoral college"

 

[Freesia]

The opposition members who win seats act as the shadow/opposition government. They dont really have as much influence as people would like though. Usually decisions are made in favour of the sitting government.

 

[Andy_T]

Agree, but it still allows for much better representation of voter will IMO.

 

[Andy_T]

Back to the US situation ... ridiculed a month ago when he first presented them, Trumps targets for his first 100 days in office have the potential to send cold shivers down your spine, as you realize that he might now have the means to try to make them happen...

Donald Trump Reveals His Plans for His First 100 Days and They are Terrifying

 

[Moll Flanders]

I read some interesting articles just now.

Be calm: Trump is not the worst and won’t go unchallenged | Simon Jenkins | Opinion | The Guardian

US election 2016: America's front-porch revolt - BBC News


NSFW -
How To Talk To Your Child About The Election Results

Also, and I can't emphasize this enough, Jill Stein and Gary Johnson are just flat out terrible candidates. Worse than both Clinton and Trump. Stein has no idea what she's doing and can't hold a realistic political position for ten seconds without wavering, and Johnson appears to constantly be high on a drug that no one else but him knows exists.

That really made me laugh, runner's high, maybe?

 

[Moll Flanders]

I'm wondering what will happen now in the France and German elections and in other parts of Europe. After Brexit and Trump, Populists Target Next Dominoes in Europe - Bloomberg

 

[beancounter]

For months Hillary, Obama, and various other surrogates have been warning us that Trump is unstable and unhinged and not qualified to be president.

Shortly after the election, they are saying "he's our president now, give him a chance".

WTF!

So, it's all just a bunch of lies to pursuade us to vote one way or another? Is that it?

I can just hear it now "Oh, don't be so naïve beancounter".

Ok, I won't. The bottom line is that I will never believe what any Democratic candidate says anymore.

and I certainly won't believe the Republicans either...

 

[Andy_T]

Ok, I won't. The bottom line is that I will never believe what any Democratic candidate says anymore.

and I certainly won't believe the Republicans either...

I guess you are on to something here...

 

[Mischief]

For months Hillary, Obama, and various other surrogates have been warning us that Trump is unstable and unhinged and not qualified to be president.

Shortly after the election, they are saying "he's our president now, give him a chance".

WTF!

So, it's all just a bunch of lies to pursuade us to vote one way or another? Is that it?

I can just hear it now "Oh, don't be so naïve beancounter".

Ok, I won't. The bottom line is that I will never believe what any Democratic candidate says anymore.

and I certainly won't believe the Republicans either...

They are simply doing what outgoing leaders in democracies are supposed to do, and that is acknowledge the will of the people.


The alternative is to be like the Republicans, as they said the day after the election, "We will make certain that his presidency fails."

That works out really well for the country, doesn't it?!?!

Toddlers have screaming hissy fits when they don't get their way. Adults shouldn't, although it's quite apparent that many do.

 

[Mischief]

It really depends I guess. In some countries like NZ and Germany also for example people vote for the third parties a lot because the system allows for several parties to be in at once. depends on the system, I guess in a country where it is generally one of 2 parties I can see how third party voting would not be as useful. I think often it can be a protest vote.

I started a thread questioning how third parties would work in the U.S. system, where the head of one of the three branches of government is elected by the voters as a whole, rather than by the members of the party/parties in power: Are third parties feasible?

The problem of course is that with more than two parties, the President would always be elected without any possibility of majority vote - by roughly a third of the vote if there are three roughly equivalently represented parties, by even smaller minorities if there are more than three parties.

I'd still be interested i how people figure that would work, but nobody has posted any ideas on that thread.

 

[Mischief]

I strongly disagree with you on this one, and there are lots of others who offer more valid explanations than I could in the time I have...

Donald Trump would have lost if Bernie Sanders had been the candidate
If anyone doubts Bernie Sanders would've crushed Trump, show them this
Would Bernie Sanders have defeated Donald Trump?

As I quoted above:

17 percent of voters said the next president should change from Obama’s agenda to “more liberal policies,” and 23 percent of those voters cast ballots for Trump.

A whopping 17% of actual voters wanted policies "more liberal than Obama's", and 23% of those were so woefully ill informed that they thought Trump was more liberal than Hillary.

Once Trump started running ads showing Bernie calling himself a socialist, Bernie would have been toast.

You guys who live in liberal little pockets of the country (or who live in countries where "socialist" isn't a dirty word) have no idea about the impact of the word.

 

[Mischief]

VV is the only place I discussed my views.

I don't do FB, Twitter or other mass social media. I seriously doubt my "unswerving negativity" on VV resulted in Clinton losing the election.

No one person's actions did.

But in a case where the one person wins the Electoral College and the other person wins the popular vote, it's a matter of not very many votes in given precincts that would swing the election the other way.

At any given time, if I check who's on VV, there are more guests than members.

Don't make the mistake of thinking that this is not a public forum. Your voice is heard by more people than those who post here.

 

[Mischief]

A list of resistance, walkouts and unrest spreading throughout the United States.

I'm curious. Let's say tens of millions take to the streets? What do you think these demonstrations will accomplish, other than the participants venting their feelings?

Do you think Trump will step down? Do you think the GOP Congress will vote differently?

 

[Dedalus]

I'm curious. Let's say tens of millions take to the streets? What do you think these demonstrations will accomplish, other than the participants venting their feelings?

Do you think Trump will step down? Do you think the GOP Congress will vote differently?

Look what Occupy Wall Steet did though!

Oh wait...

 

[Spang]

Look what Occupy Wall Steet did though!

You mean before DHS, the FBI, police and big banks did everything in their power to shut that **** down?

 

[beancounter]

They are simply doing what outgoing leaders in democracies are supposed to do, and that is acknowledge the will of the people.

You mean like the popular vote?...

But that still doesn't address my main point: From "he's dangerous" to "just give Trump a chance" is a complete heel turn.

It has nothing to do with the peaceful transfer of power and everything to do with the political class just treating the rest of us like a bunch of pawns that can be easily manipulated.

A few weeks from now the Trumps and Clintons are going to be hanging out at their exclusive country club shooting the breeze and laughing at the unwashed masses.

 

[beancounter]

Don't make the mistake of thinking that this is not a public forum. Your voice is heard by more people than those who post here.

The people who search for vegetarian and vegan represent a tiny percent of the population. Not enough to make a difference....

 

[Dedalus]

You mean before DHS, the FBI, police and big banks did everything in their power to shut that **** down?

Yep. That one.

 

[shyvas]

So we owe it to you to vote your way? Sounds like you belong in one of those countries where if you don't vote for the "right" candidate, you can be jailed or killed. By the way, libertarian candidates tend to pull from republicans and green party from the democrats. Many, many newcomers to the Gary Johnson FB pages were republicans not happy with Trump. They were never going to vote for Hillary.

I'll say what I said last spring during the primaries. Bernie would have beaten Trump. And I'm not a Bernie fan so it's not sour grapes. The DNC tried to shove Hillary down voters' throats and even admitted to some vote rigging. Blame them. Or continue to blame and the rest of the Johnson voters, we don't care. Even if Johnson wasn't on the ballot, I wouldn't have voted for Hillary. Or Trump for that matter.

I get being upset your candidate didn't win. I do not get those who think they have the right to command everyone vote their way.

I totally agree and trying to get back at voters that have voted against your candidate is not being democratic. You have to learn to be a ''good'' loser.

 

[Amy SF]

Look what Occupy Wall Steet did though!

Oh wait...

The media will become even worse over the next four years. When Occupy L.A. protesters camped out on the lawn in front of L.A. City Hall and stayed there for days, they ultimately destroyed the lawn. The Los Angeles Times spent more time whining about the destroyed lawn (and printed letters from readers doing the same) than talking about why people were camped out in the first place. That's something the media has been doing at least since the days of William Randolph Hearst. Either ignore them or demonize and belittle them. Trump will pull a Nixon; he'll attack the press with a vengeance, this time with the power of the presidency, and threaten them if they portray him in a bad light.