Can vegans eat meat (roadkills)

[Gaspard]

Here are my three reasons not to eat roadkills or any dead animal one might find in the woods:

1) Ecological reason: a dead bird is part of the ecosystem. It should be eaten by crows and maggots (and other scavengers). Then the corps should fertilize the soil.

2) Moral reason: animals are “equal in dignity” to humans (even though they are not identical to humans). Given that we think it would be disrespectful to eat a dead person, then we shouldn’t eat any animal. (But this may not apply to some anthropophagic society, for example the Aghoris.)

3) Scientific reason: if vegans want to prove that the vegan diet is adequate, then they shouldn’t eat any meat, otherwise scientific studies about vegan diets would be flawed.

So I think appart from a survival situation, vegans should never eat meat. What is your opinion?

 

[KLS52]

Vegans don’t eat meat, roadkill or otherwise.

 

[Sax]

but thankfully there's a solution in the works:

Beyond Roadkill

 

[Lou]

Here are my three reasons not to eat roadkills or any dead animal one might find in the woods:

1) Ecological reason: a dead bird is part of the ecosystem. It should be eaten by crows and maggots (and other scavengers). Then the corps should fertilize the soil.

2) Moral reason: animals are “equal in dignity” to humans (even though they are not identical to humans). Given that we think it would be disrespectful to eat a dead person, then we shouldn’t eat any animal. (But this may not apply to some anthropophagic society, for example the Aghoris.)

3) Scientific reason: if vegans want to prove that the vegan diet is adequate, then they shouldn’t eat any meat, otherwise scientific studies about vegan diets would be flawed.

So I think appart from a survival situation, vegans should never eat meat. What is your opinion?

4. it's disgusting
5. bits of bone in the meat
6. unsanitary. bacteria count and rotting flesh.

 

[Lou]

It just so happens I stopped by at the Road Kill Cafe on my way home yesterday.

Here is the menu.
i think it's funny but if you are easily offended or grossed out just don't open the link

As Read: Road Kill Cafe Menu

Good eating from the Road Kill Cafe.

www.cartalk.com

 

[Gaspard]

but thankfully there's a solution in the works:

Beyond Roadkill

I don't know what you're refering to. Any links?

 

[Nekodaiden]

Here are my three reasons not to eat roadkills or any dead animal one might find in the woods:

1) Ecological reason: a dead bird is part of the ecosystem. It should be eaten by crows and maggots (and other scavengers). Then the corps should fertilize the soil.

2) Moral reason: animals are “equal in dignity” to humans (even though they are not identical to humans). Given that we think it would be disrespectful to eat a dead person, then we shouldn’t eat any animal. (But this may not apply to some anthropophagic society, for example the Aghoris.)

3) Scientific reason: if vegans want to prove that the vegan diet is adequate, then they shouldn’t eat any meat, otherwise scientific studies about vegan diets would be flawed.

So I think appart from a survival situation, vegans should never eat meat. What is your opinion?

My view is that a person eating animal products for any reason is not a vegan when they do so. If I was in a survival situation, I would eat them to survive, and not be confused about whether I'm still vegan or not - clearly I would not be for however long I did so, until I stopped doing so.

Based on some of your posts, it seems you have come across some people who are confusing ethics and veganism. They are related on some level, but they are not the same. Ethics would allow someone to eat roadkill or a bird that crashed into a structure and died or an egg that a hen abandoned. As veganism, at least from a dietary standpoint, is a state of abstinence, then circumstances such as those described are irrelevant. The ethics box can be ticked, but not the vegan box.

 

[Gaspard]

Based on some of your posts, it seems you have come across some people who are confusing ethics and veganism.

You're right. I want to start a discussion about that.

 

[Three Chickpeas]

I don't think its unethical to eat it, since it is already dead. As someone that doesn't eat meat, just because its ethical doesn't mean its something I am personally willing to compromise on. Not that I would judge others for taking that course of action. If anything, I would prefer that course of action of taking the life of another animal just for food while discarding thoughtlessly what could be considered 'food' to others.

 

[Lou]

I don't know what you're refering to. Any links?

I believe it was a joke. I don't always get stuff either.

Beyond meat / beyond roadkill.

You know what could be funny? a cooking show where the contestants are challenged to make vegan dishes resemble roadkill.
(pauses to imagine it)
Oh. Wait. Nevermind.

 

[Lou]

You're right. I want to start a discussion about that.

I'm all for discussions. Even debates. but remember this is still part of the Internet.
Starting an argument about a point of view - especially one that you don't even share - is sort of pointless. and inflammatory. maybe even trolling.

But this is a pretty tame group but also carefully moderated. So just try to keep the shiny side up.

 

[Forest Nymph]

I'm glad that you brought up how "roadkill" is there for wildlife or to nourish the soil for plants. Plus, roadkill is still technically human homicide since those animals wouldn't be killed in such large numbers without people carelessly operating motor vehicles.

I don't see any reason why a vegan should eat meat for any reason, which is why I constantly insist on vegetarianism when someone tries to protest that they "need" meat due to poverty or lack of access to vegan food. I don't care if you're homeless and living in a tent in Los Angeles, yes you can be a vegetarian. Fast food restaurants, 7-11's, and charity food banks are filled with meatless options even if it's too tough to be 100% vegan.

There are Freegans who will eat things like roadkill or dumpster dive for flesh. I think their position is logically sound, especially in the dumpster diving scenario, since no new animals will be killed, and they didn't purchase anything in the capitalist system by doing so, but I don't think it's vegan. They tend to be left libertarians/anarchists first though before animal rights activists, which is why I don't consider them hypocrites.

 

[Forest Nymph]

You're right. I want to start a discussion about that.

He's not right. Veganism is an ethical positionality, not a "diet." A person who avoids animal products for health is on a plant-based diet, which is the term medical doctors use. If "vegan" simply meant absence of animal products in a diet, all of the plant-based doctors would use the term, but they don't because it's a philosophical rather than medical or dietary term.

A vegan who has to take prescription medicine with traces of lactose or who has to eat small amounts of animal products via charity in poverty is still a vegan as long as they avoid animal products and animal exploitation in ALL WAYS (including circuses, leather/fur/silk, animal testing etc) as far as possible and practible.

Imagine a world twenty years from now where many or most people are plant-based due to environmental or health concerns. They may still be okay with animal testing or occasionally have animal products when they deem it sustainable or rare enough on a special occasion to fit into their health food diet. Vegans would still be the people avoiding animal exploitation in all forms in this very plausible future world.

 

[rogerjolly]

Vegans do not need to eat flesh.
Vegans have absolutely no desire to eat flesh.
The very thought of eating flesh is repulsive to them.
These are points that many non-vegans just do not appreciate. They seem to insist we must be missing out on something. We are not.

“Veganism is not a sacrifice. It is a joy.” Gary Francione.

Nature has wonderful ways of disposing of dead bodies. Carrion Crows and Foxes must think that Christmas has arrived early when they find roadkill. And they do need to eat flesh and do desire it and don’t find it at all repulsive.

Leave it to them.

Roger.

 

[Emma JC]

He's not right. Veganism is an ethical positionality, not a "diet." A person who avoids animal products for health is on a plant-based diet, which is the term medical doctors use. If "vegan" simply meant absence of animal products in a diet, all of the plant-based doctors would use the term, but they don't because it's a philosophical rather than medical or dietary term.

A vegan who has to take prescription medicine with traces of lactose or who has to eat small amounts of animal products via charity in poverty is still a vegan as long as they avoid animal products and animal exploitation in ALL WAYS (including circuses, leather/fur/silk, animal testing etc) as far as possible and practible.

Imagine a world twenty years from now where many or most people are plant-based due to environmental or health concerns. They may still be okay with animal testing or occasionally have animal products when they deem it sustainable or rare enough on a special occasion to fit into their health food diet. Vegans would still be the people avoiding animal exploitation in all forms in this very plausible future world.

You are exactly right, @Forest Nymph and yet, as I stated earlier today, many people are coming to veganism through a plant-based lifestyle. We all are inherently opposed to harming animals and yet it has been brainwashed out of us to associate cruelty with eating them. That is changing and, happily, it is changing quickly. Everyone will not get to the same level at the same time as this horror show has been years in the making.

Education is key, of course, and those plant-based YTubers are vital part of that movement. The ones who don't eat enough calories or who promote an unsustainable diet and who fall off the wagon are reviled by many and most can see their hypocrisy. The more videos we watch and promote like Vegan 2019, The Game Changers, What the Health, Cowspiracy, and so on will help with that education and so let's not dump on the WFPBed lifestyle promoters but let's help to educate them even more and get them/me to that next level of being vegan in all areas of their lives, not just their food.

The better people's health is the happier they will be and they will have more time and energy to spend on these important things like environmental issues and animal cruelty issues.

Emma JC

 

[Forest Nymph]

You are exactly right, @Forest Nymph and yet, as I stated earlier today, many people are coming to veganism through a plant-based lifestyle. We all are inherently opposed to harming animals and yet it has been brainwashed out of us to associate cruelty with eating them. That is changing and, happily, it is changing quickly. Everyone will not get to the same level at the same time as this horror show has been years in the making.

Education is key, of course, and those plant-based YTubers are vital part of that movement. The ones who don't eat enough calories or who promote an unsustainable diet and who fall off the wagon are reviled by many and most can see their hypocrisy. The more videos we watch and promote like Vegan 2019, The Game Changers, What the Health, Cowspiracy, and so on will help with that education and so let's not dump on the WFPBed lifestyle promoters but let's help to educate them even more and get them/me to that next level of being vegan in all areas of their lives, not just their food.

The better people's health is the happier they will be and they will have more time and energy to spend on these important things like environmental issues and animal cruelty issues.

Emma JC

Im not dumping on the doctors or nutritionists who are WFPB or people who advocate it for themselves. There is, however, an ugly trend of "why I am not vegan anymore" coming from the PB health people, as well as the fact that marketing veganism as a diet isn't going to reach people who like to eat whatever they want and have a more hedonistic approach to life. This ascetic stereotype of deprivation still strangely haunts the vegan community despite things like Beyond Burgers and dairy-free cinnamon buns now existing.

But I don't like vegan or plant based promoters on YT and elsewhere who crap on animal rights organizations, other vegans, and vegan junk food because they're just making sure veganism stays elitist, strange, difficult or about personal purity.

One of the rules of being a DXE organizer is that you don't publicly attack other animal rights organizations or vegans, you can be asked to step down. Which makes sense why Gary Francione and his people hate DXE so much. He and they would not be allowed to be organizers on principle.

 

[Nekodaiden]

I don't see any reason why a vegan should eat meat for any reason, which is why I constantly insist on vegetarianism when someone tries to protest that they "need" meat due to poverty or lack of access to vegan food. I don't care if you're homeless and living in a tent in Los Angeles, yes you can be a vegetarian. Fast food restaurants, 7-11's, and charity food banks are filled with meatless options even if it's too tough to be 100% vegan.

This paragraph originally read:

A vegan who has to take prescription medicine with traces of lactose or who has to eat small amounts of animal products via charity in poverty is still a vegan as long as they avoid animal products and animal exploitation in ALL WAYS (including circuses, leather/fur/silk, animal testing etc) as far as possible and practible.

"As long as they avoid animal products and animal exploitation in ALL WAYS"

Both the person taking the medication and the person eating animal products given to them in charity is still participating in animal exploitation. I wouldn't fault either of them for doing what they are doing to survive, but it is
deceptive and harbors confusion to call them vegan. Likewise it is deceptive
to insinuate that circumstances such as these somehow magically rule out
exploitation of animals.


And yet I know these examples are just brought up for the purposes of
special pleading, especially when one encourages vegetarianism (and hence
egg and dairy eating) for reasons as flimsy as convenience and preference (which you have done elsewhere).
Or because one thinks they have magical properties in curing or preventing hangovers,
or because there is such thing as "ethical eggs"

 

[silva]

Im not dumping on the doctors or nutritionists who are WFPB or people who advocate it for themselves. There is, however, an ugly trend of "why I am not vegan anymore" coming from the PB health people, as well as the fact that marketing veganism as a diet isn't going to reach people who like to eat whatever they want and have a more hedonistic approach to life. This ascetic stereotype of deprivation still strangely haunts the vegan community despite things like Beyond Burgers and dairy-free cinnamon buns now existing.

But I don't like vegan or plant based promoters on YT and elsewhere who crap on animal rights organizations, other vegans, and vegan junk food because they're just making sure veganism stays elitist, strange, difficult or about personal purity.

One of the rules of being a DXE organizer is that you don't publicly attack other animal rights organizations or vegans, you can be asked to step down. Which makes sense why Gary Francione and his people hate DXE so much. He and they would not be allowed to be organizers on principle.

What is DXE?

 

[Nekodaiden]

You're right. I want to start a discussion about that.

You may find the following thread interesting: https://www.veganforum.org/threads/original-definition-of-vegan-was-better.3589/

To speak generally, if you come across anyone who says that special circumstances allow for the eating of animal products *and still retain the label of being vegan while doing so* then it's a fairly safe bet that such persons are using special pleading to excuse their indiscretions.

 

[Nekodaiden]

What is DXE?

Direct Action Everywhere. It's an animal rights organization.