How do you deal with ex-vegans?

[deadknight]

In the early testing stages the FDA required Impossible to test some ingredient on rats. That's all I know about vegan considerations
At Burger King they are cooked on shared grill unless you ask for them to be microwaved. This doesn't bother me (If I don't taste it)
As to the testing, it's in the past and I feel the benefit of having a product that appeals to the masses outweighs it

Thank you very much for the info!

 

[Lou]

In the early testing stages the FDA required Impossible to test some ingredient on rats. That's all I know about vegan considerations

and I suppose the original hemoglobin DNA must have come from some animal. but the animal wasn't specifically killed for that.

 

[Lou]

I was doing something wrong. Second try worked and I entered that BK contest.
And I got my free Impossible whopper today. It tasted (and looked) better than usual. Maybe cause I ate it in the store instead of taking it home (and it getting cold). or maybe just cause Free Food tastes better.

 

[Tom L.]

Such small accidents might happen, especially when you are a newbeginner.

What, they don't have vegan mayo? Shocking! They should.
Very good that you don't try to bagatellize this mayo incident - yes, next time you're going to be more careful, but beating yourself up for it would not do any good.

True... but I've been doing this for quite some time. That's why I was hard on myself. The longer one does something, the better they should get at it... BUT "to err is human", and the longer you do something, maybe the odds also go up that you're going to make an error- either through chance or temporary fatigue.

Actually, there was a vegan mayonnaise... and it's back by popular demand! It's called "Just Mayo", and when I tried it a few years ago, it tasted very much like I remember Hellman's Real Mayonnaise tasting (I had Miracle Whip a few times in my pre-veg days but didn't care for it).

This Eggless Mayo Returns After a 4-Year Hiatus. Can It Disrupt the $11 Billion Mayonnaise Market?

After pulling them from shelves four years ago, Eat Just answers the call to bring back popular vegan condiments Just Mayo and Just Ranch.

vegnews.com

 

[Lou]

Like you said there is vegan mayo. And there is vegan cheese too, but BK hasn't seen fit to bother with them yet.

in defense of BK, as far as I know none of the major chains offer a vegan burger with non dairy cheese or vegan mayo, too.

 

[silva]

So glad that Just Mayo is back! It was the only thing that go me in a Walmart . It was a normal price, and very good, tasted just like any other mayo variety
I'll stick to making it though, so cheap and really better.

I do have to say the bitter ex-vegans are one of my most disliked groups of people. It's like they just have to be tops in what they do, and if they can't be that by being vegan, they'll go the opposite way.

I do love people just normally make food that is vegan, look for products that are ethical, and just normalize thinking outside of using animals.
I don't expect everyone to be vegan now

 

[Mufflon]

However, my concerns are about those who explicitly go back to carnism.

Tbh, I don't get these people and their 180° turn.

I get the occasional slice of non-vegan cake or cookie or milk chocolate or whatever - but I simply can't imagine going back to eating e. g. steak and omelette regularly.

 

[VeganRachel]

This question keeps bothering me.

I really don't want to sound too negative or hurtful, but former vegans usually make me annoyed - because for me, veganism is more than something I'd temporarily put on.
I would not say "it's a lifelong engagement", because I don't even feel I've been engaged into anything. I just think this is what should be the norm. Not hurting animals. Not keeping them in captivity. Not exploiting them in any way. Not killing them when they aren't profitable any more. Not thinking our 10 minutes of enjoyment worth more than an animal's life of 8 weeks.

Now, I am trying my best to be careful and avoid rudeness, but I admit I can get really impatient when people give up veganism and use the cheapest excuses you could think of. I really don't know what to do.
I think you guys have heard many of these excuses.
Symptoms of deficiency - because taking the efforts to plan a really good vegan diet and doing some research about necessary supplements would be too demanding; claiming "this is just not for me" and using their blood group or Zodiac sign or MBTI personality type or anything in that direction to justify their quitting veganism; or doing the usual mental gymnastic by stating "there are many better ways of showing compassion to animals than not killing them", or "I go back to eating meat, eggs and dairy but I always, always buy from eco-bio shiny-happy rainbow farms where the animals are literally cuddled to death" and so on.

What annoys me most - I wonder if it's appropriate to mention it here? - is when people first announce their going vegan on social media, they tend to be vegan activists for a while, then they post about how they're not vegan anymore and give a detailed explanation on why they are no longer vegans.
This latter always makes me a bit sceptical or suspicious. Why do they feel the need of explaining themselves? Maybe they have some bad conscience about their decision and try to justify it to their followers?

The other thing I don't quite get is how "being a former vegan" might be the part of some people's identity. A cattle breeder calling themselves an "ex-vegan animal scientist" and the like. Sorry what? I don't find identifying myself as an "ex-carnist, ex-speciesist" necessary.

Yes I used to eat meat. Yes I used to be a vegetarian who believed giving up eating corpses was enough.
(Oh yes, I saw the very same when going vegetarian was a temporary trend.
I heard people say "I used to be a vegetarian but now I am back to eating meat because my SO needs meat", or - my ultimate favourite - "I used to be a vegetarian but later, at the cooking school, we had to taste everything".
My standard excuse for quitting vegetarianism is still "I used to be a vegetarian too but I recognized going vegan was the very best thing I could do.")

But I don't think what I used to be would define what I am - as of to-day.
Could somebody please explain to me how being an ex-something gives you an identity?

Sorry if this turned out to be an inconsistent rant. I hope I didn't violate any community rules, but I really need some advice on how not to get angry, what to do when you feel incredibly sad about this tendency, and how to react in a way that's not hurtful?

Thank you for sharing an excellent discussion of your understandings. I agree with what you say. Faunalytics studies show that there are
many reasons "vegans", "fail". Socializing issues were the main one. The conclusion is, when you make a major dietary change, you must do your
homework (as you stated) and understand what the ramifications are, how others will perceive you, how to eat healthfully and for nutrition, B12, and
so on.

I believe that most "ex's" had trouble being different and not part of the normal crowd. They also certainly did not eat healthfully, and
were deficient in nutrition. I have a neighbor who said she 'tried" vegetarianism and it made her sick.

It is interesting that many "ex's" make sure that others knew they were "former" vegans. Sadly, they then announce that the "vegan diet" is a
failure and unhealthy. But what kind of 'vegan' were they?.

However, veganism is much more than a "diet", it is also having compassion and respect for non-human animals lives, and for the environment, and wanting a more loving, kind, compassionate and peaceful world for all humans --by eating a non-violent diet. I typ[ical;ly grew us as an omnivore, yet
honestly ENJOYED my meals of animals and animal products. I loved cheese, and that was the hardest (addictive) thing to let go of. But I am not a calf and have no need for the milk of a 1200 pound female animal rife with estrogens, who suffers in the dairy industry. I made a commitment to be vegan
over 25 years ago, for the animals, for myself, the environment, and the rest of humanity. It is about love and compassion for me. Thank you.

 

[VeganRachel]

I think I get what you mean.
There are people who do try their best, they just think they cannot call themselves vegans because occasionally, they happen to buy products that are not 100% vegan, or sometimes they get something to eat with egg or milk powder or any other animal ingredients in it... That's another question.
However, my concerns are about those who explicitly go back to carnism.

There are many humans who go from "diet" to diet to see what fits them or how they feel. I also find it strange that some ex-vegans
go 100% in the other direction. Aside from mentioning "how" the animal was raised, they never discuss anything about ethics or
compassion, its' just feeding their smiling face. I would believe that they were only looking at veganism as a "diet", and not for ethical
or moral reasons. It is so easy to dismiss the lives of animals killed behind closed doors, and simply see them as "food".

 

[Graeme M]

Ex-vegans are a curious bunch. Up front, I'll say it doesn't bother me if people eat some meat or whatever because they think they have to. As everyone knows from my other comments here, I don't believe in people being "vegan", whatever on earth that really means. For me, veganism is an idea about justice and fairness and doing what we can when we can. I have zero interest in what that means for any particular person, other than that I would like everyone in the world to want to take it on board. For example, my sheep farming friend has changed some of her own behaviours after learning more about veganism and what happens to some animals in farming. So, it surprises me that when people feel they must go back to eating meat they seem to think they have abandoned veganism. That is no reason to abandon the idea at all.

That said, I have just spent a few months in an ex-vegans FB group, and I found it a singularly depressing experience. The outrageously silly things people say really frustrated me. Every possible illness was blamed on the vegan diet. And worse, they have an over-the-top hatred of veganism as a result. Many of them become carnivore dieters. It is really odd, because they have traded in one super strict, judgmental attitude for another and seem not to notice.

 

[VeganRachel]

Ex-vegans are a curious bunch. Up front, I'll say it doesn't bother me if people eat some meat or whatever because they think they have to. As everyone knows from my other comments here, I don't believe in people being "vegan", whatever on earth that really means. For me, veganism is an idea about justice and fairness and doing what we can when we can. I have zero interest in what that means for any particular person, other than that I would like everyone in the world to want to take it on board. For example, my sheep farming friend has changed some of her own behaviours after learning more about veganism and what happens to some animals in farming. So, it surprises me that when people feel they must go back to eating meat they seem to think they have abandoned veganism. That is no reason to abandon the idea at all.

That said, I have just spent a few months in an ex-vegans FB group, and I found it a singularly depressing experience. The outrageously silly things people say really frustrated me. Every possible illness was blamed on the vegan diet. And worse, they have an over-the-top hatred of veganism as a result. And pretty much none of them will have anything to do with veganism as a result. Many of them become carnivore dieters. It is really odd, because they have traded in one super strict, judgmental attitude for another and seem not to notice.

Some humans who 'fail', even if it was their fault, are not happy campers and they want to complain to other ex's to feel cameraderie and togetherness as omnivores. I firmly also believe that animal ag wants and supports humans becoming ex-vegans to discourage new vegans. Supporting ex-vegan chat rooms and videos, and trolls on video platfiorms and social media is also a part of this sabotage effort--propaganda. The biggest threat to
animal ag profits is the vegan movement, revealing the truths about what animal ag really is, the health and environmental problems by eating animal products, as well as horror for the animals. Its' about money.

 

[Graeme M]

Some humans who 'fail', even if it was their fault, are not happy campers and they want to complain to other ex's to feel cameraderie and togetherness as omnivores. I firmly also believe that animal ag wants and supports humans becoming ex-vegans to discourage new vegans. Supporting ex-vegan chat rooms and videos, and trolls on video platfiorms and social media is also a part of this sabotage effort--propaganda. The biggest threat to
animal ag profits is the vegan movement, revealing the truths about what animal ag really is, the health and environmental problems by eating animal products, as well as horror for the animals. Its' about money.

I agree that the animal ag industry has been very busy in recent times seeking to counter the vegan message. I would not be surprised to learn that the industry has media groups whose only job is to do just that. One of the odd things that has happened in the past few years is this carnivore diet thing. Many such advocates genuinely believe that eating nothing but meat is the best diet for humans. They completely reject all the science that tells us that saturated fats are a health risk and claim that most plants are dangerous to eat. It's downright bizarre, but unfortunately a lot of people believe it. I saw a phot the other day on one of these pages of a breakfast - several fried eggs, a pile of bacon and a small piece of steak. The photo was labelled "healthier than any vegan meal". Seriously!!!

 

[Tom L.]

Back to the question that started this thread, asking about how we deal with ex-vegans:....

How many of us here, after talking with someone and they mentioned they're an ex-vegan or ex-vegetarian, have asked them why they changed back to eating meat, and made suggestions how they might be able to stick with it? I'm sure there are different kinds of "ex-vegans". For example, if someone were to go vegan by just dropping all animal-based foods, but they weren't eating much in the way of grains, legumes, and seeds, they'd probably be ravenously hungry in short order. When someone finds out I'm veg, they often ask me what I eat. I think I mention that my calories and protein now come primarily from grains and legumes, although sunflower kernels and peanuts are also staples of mine. Hopefully, I mention that, yes, these foods often take a bit of culinary skill to make them appetizing- but it's doable.

As far as "fake" or imitation foods like "Silk" soymilk and vegetarian/vegan burgers, such as "Impossible" or other brand burgers go... they are highly processed, and I avoid relying on them excessively (I think I keep it to one serving a day). But I've been quite happy with them.

 

[silva]

Back to the question that started this thread, asking about how we deal with ex-vegans:....

How many of us here, after talking with someone and they mentioned they're an ex-vegan or ex-vegetarian, have asked them why they changed back to eating meat, and made suggestions how they might be able to stick with it? I'm sure there are different kinds of "ex-vegans". For example, if someone were to go vegan by just dropping all animal-based foods, but they weren't eating much in the way of grains, legumes, and seeds, they'd probably be ravenously hungry in short order. When someone finds out I'm veg, they often ask me what I eat. I think I mention that my calories and protein now come primarily from grains and legumes, although sunflower kernels and peanuts are also staples of mine. Hopefully, I mention that, yes, these foods often take a bit of culinary skill to make them appetizing- but it's doable.

As far as "fake" or imitation foods like "Silk" soymilk and vegetarian/vegan burgers, such as "Impossible" or other brand burgers go... they are highly processed, and I avoid relying on them excessively (I think I keep it to one serving a day). But I've been quite happy with them.

Me. Every time it comes up. Most often I find it's someone who's only dabbled, not even going all plant based. Some had a SO who was vegan, so more doing it for the relationship, and quit when it ended. Then the emotional ones seem to resolve themselves to their taste and convienence and choose to believe it doesn't work for them. The ones who watched What the Health find it too extreme
And this 'culinary skill', it isn't any more difficult than what we've been used to, it's simply a change. It truly is easier to cook plants than meat

 

[silva]

Some of the most honest people where those who felt they really wanted to go veg, but so scared of trying and not being able to go all the way, they felt they'd feel too guilty.I can understand that, as that's how I felt when I had kids and gave it up
Why I don't try too much to 'convert', but just promote less animal products, and give options every chance I get

 

[Col]

People can regret their u-turn
and there is increasingly overwhelming evidence in how good not consuming animals is for people of all ages.
I regret a u-turn I made earlier in life.
The thing is though that the animals are not given that choice on whether they want to be used and killed as products,
and are locked in a system where they cannot breed naturally, or even care for their own young.

 

[Danielle]

what I like to do is add my own vegan mayo to my Impossible, well sometimes. I also just eat it in the parking lot so it's nice and warm. if not I'll have to reheat it

 

[Lou]

what I like to do is add my own vegan mayo to my Impossible, well sometimes. I also just eat it in the parking lot so it's nice and warm. if not I'll have to reheat it

I buy just my $3 impossible whopper at the drive thru, go home and make some fries. Then I reheat the whopper. toast the bun, and add mayo and more lettuce and tomato. I also provide my own drink. s

 

[LoreD]

I'm Okay with the former vegans. They tried, and hopefully they learned enough to reduce their consumption of animal products.

I think a lot of people go into the project without doing any research. I watched a YouTube video of a woman who tried to eat vegan, bought a sackful of processed stuff, and then was upset about how awful vegan food was. Fortunately, she had some vegan followers, who gave her their favorite recipes.

With most ex vegans, I can only hope that they will give it another try.

That Carnism thing is just plain sick.

 

[Graeme M]

That Carnism thing is just plain sick.

Carnism is nuts but it's all over the internet. A lot of people love it...