beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
Right, a small fraction, or in other words, a sample...because it's usually not possible to examine an entire population.
US Connecticut Shooting
- Thread starter AeryFairy
- Start date
Right, a small fraction, or in other words, a sample...because it's usually not possible to examine an entire population.
Wolfie
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Depends on what you consider fair.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/04/teen-mom-shoots-kills-intruder-with-11-dispatcher-on-phone/
yakherder
老外
Excuse for what? I personally don't care one way or another which side of the debate wins. I don't think gun saturation makes society any safer, nor do I believe attempts to get rid of them will achieve the intended result of reducing violence. But who am I to deny anyone of their perception of control if that's what makes them feel better? It just pains me to watch what I consider to be a waste of time and resources. Based on my admittedly non-expert opinion given the data that I have seen, if the intent is to reduce violence, free contraception would probably have a greater effect than gun control, and the implementation of it would be much less costly. But I'm rambling. Not my fight, and I don't want to change this into a contraception debate because that's not my point, just the first random example that came to mind.
yakherder
老外
And no, life isn't fair and, arguably, shouldn't be. If life were fair, we'd still be a bunch of single celled organisms with no reason to adapt.
das_nut
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The most obvious was slavery outlawed by the 13th Amendment. It was every bit as much a part of the American culture as guns are now. It's a long list.
yakherder
老外
The end of the path to that amendment is decorated with the corpses of 600,000 to 700,000 people who died in the civil war, never mind the century that preceded it. It was not as easy as simply passing an amendment, that was merely the end result.
Whether or not it was worth it is a matter of opinion. I believe it was. To put that into the perspective of personal choices in modern times, a reduction in human trafficking is a cause I'd be willing to give my life for. Gun control is not.
das_nut
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Not even the end result. The black codes were tried after that in a few states, and such slavery-in-another-name was only stopped by the Reconstruction governments (read: occupying military force).
And, of course, when Reconstruction was over with, Jim Crow reared its ugly head.
You're worried that someone might get shot if guncontrol legislation is passed???????? Brain warp!!!
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
The problem boils down to the NRA's insistance that no gun laws (with any teeth) be passed. I bet that inflexibility has indirectly contributed to thousands and thousands of deaths.
And they won't even give on laws that wouldn't make a difference to an adult, but might save the life of a child (e.g. gun locks). If I recall correctly, they claimed it would hurt gun sales.
But it doesn't matter. they have all the time in the world. All they have to do is wait until the media and the publics attention are drawn elswhere, and nothing will change.
And they won't even give on laws that wouldn't make a difference to an adult, but might save the life of a child (e.g. gun locks). If I recall correctly, they claimed it would hurt gun sales.
But it doesn't matter. they have all the time in the world. All they have to do is wait until the media and the publics attention are drawn elswhere, and nothing will change.
yakherder
老外
Brain warped? Probably. But not any more so than the 7 billion lunatics I share this world with. Passing laws that moderate numbers of people don't agree with always results in violence. Believing that it won't is irrational. The relevant question is how much, and is it worth the end result?
das_nut
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Blame the politicians as well, as well as the anti-gun folks. The anti-gun folks are ignorant about guns, and the politicians want to please as many people as they can, thus gun control legislation gets passed which sounds good yet is ineffective.
By the way, the NRA isn't considered the most extreme organization for gun rights. GOA (Gun Owners of America) is far less compromising than the NRA.
Then there's fringe groups. The Jewish pro-gun one (forget its name) is rabidly insane, to the point of attacking the ADL.
I also especially blame those who are anti gun control because they say that gun control doesn't work - some even sometimes admit the reason that the assault weapons ban and similar legislation didn't work was because it was purely cosmetic, but most of the time they ignore their sporadic honesty and just oppose gun control legislation across the board.
They probably do more than anyone else to promote the idea of gun ownership as reasonable and some kind of inviolate right.
beancounter
The Fire That Burns Within
das_nut
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An "assault weapons ban" is going to be basically cosmetic by definition. "Assault weapons" tend to be functionally indistinct from regular semi-automatic weapons.
It has the most, but it occasionally compromises.
GOA has less political clout, but seems unwilling to compromise.
I guess those of you who say that guns aren't the problem would try to argue that these two firefighters would have been killed regardless, and the other two men would also be fighting for their lives in the absence of guns:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-shooting-victim/
I think I'll keep on posting news stories throughout the year, to remind you of the price others are paying for your beliefs.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/24/us/new-york-shooting-victim/
I think I'll keep on posting news stories throughout the year, to remind you of the price others are paying for your beliefs.
In less than a week after the Sandy Hook killings, more than 100 people died by gun, including the following:
The night after Sandy Hook, a gunman pulled behind a car in Kansas City's east side and opened fire, striking 4-year-old
In the week following the Sandy Hook massacre, a body was found inside a vacant house, at a car wash, in a bodega. They were discovered on a bike trail, in a backyard, inside the front office of a motel, in an idling Chevy pickup. They were the 67th murder in their city and the 88th and the 124th.
One was shot in the face while sleeping, a baby sound asleep in a crib nearby. One was a grandmother on her way home from a store.
On Saturday afternoon, a 3-year-old in Guthrie, Okla., died after accidentally shooting himself in the head with a gun he found inside his aunt and uncle's house. His uncle is an Oklahoma state trooper.
Paul Sampleton Jr., 14, was bound and shot in his Gwinnett County, Ga., townhome on Wednesday afternoon. His father found him in the kitchen. Police suspect a robbery motive.
A 20-year-old man shot and killed Veronica Soto, a young mother of two, in an apparent road rage incident on Thursday. Soto and her husband had gone out to a nearby Jack in the Box in the Houston area when they became involved in a confrontation with drivers in two other cars. The accused killer Mark Trevino, and the victim's husband pulled guns.
"Investigators said Mark Trevino came to a stop, ran into his home on Addicks-Clodine, grabbed a rifle and started shooting. Soto was shot in the head. Her husband also pulled out his gun. 'They started shooting back and forth and the bullet went through the windshield, hit her and went out the back windshield,' said Matthew Soto, the victim’s brother-in-law," reported a Houston television station.
In Georgetown, Ohio, a 71-year-old man was arrested on Sunday after shooting his adult son John Louderback in the chest. The sheriff's office said the man called 911 and confessed.
Ramona Foreman was found shot in the doorway of the Oakland, Calif., 92nd Avenue Head Start office. The 48-year-old and her sister were walking home from a store when shots rang out. Foreman had been the innocent victim of a drive-by shooting. The victim's granddaughter told a reporter that her grandmother was the 13th person she knows killed this year.
Deputy Sheriff Christopher Parsons, 31, worked the early-morning shift on Saturday, when he took an emergency call to assist an unconscious woman at a trailer park in Mineral Point, Mo. As he helped place the woman in the ambulance, her son came out of the mobile home and fired a rifle, killing Parsons.
On Sunday in New Orleans, three people were shot and killed, including 18-year-old Lawrence Burt, 56-year-old Vivian Snyder, and a 56-year-old Jefferson Parish taxi driver Joseph Wilfred, who was shot behind the wheel. According to an account, he'd been on the job for about three weeks.
That same afternoon, 25-year-old Krystal Garcia Nacoa was allegedly shot to death by her husband, Leonardo Nacoa, 26, at their Porterville, Calif., home.
And that was a low murder rate week - the normal death toll is about double.
The night after Sandy Hook, a gunman pulled behind a car in Kansas City's east side and opened fire, striking 4-year-old
In the week following the Sandy Hook massacre, a body was found inside a vacant house, at a car wash, in a bodega. They were discovered on a bike trail, in a backyard, inside the front office of a motel, in an idling Chevy pickup. They were the 67th murder in their city and the 88th and the 124th.
One was shot in the face while sleeping, a baby sound asleep in a crib nearby. One was a grandmother on her way home from a store.
On Saturday afternoon, a 3-year-old in Guthrie, Okla., died after accidentally shooting himself in the head with a gun he found inside his aunt and uncle's house. His uncle is an Oklahoma state trooper.
Paul Sampleton Jr., 14, was bound and shot in his Gwinnett County, Ga., townhome on Wednesday afternoon. His father found him in the kitchen. Police suspect a robbery motive.
A 20-year-old man shot and killed Veronica Soto, a young mother of two, in an apparent road rage incident on Thursday. Soto and her husband had gone out to a nearby Jack in the Box in the Houston area when they became involved in a confrontation with drivers in two other cars. The accused killer Mark Trevino, and the victim's husband pulled guns.
"Investigators said Mark Trevino came to a stop, ran into his home on Addicks-Clodine, grabbed a rifle and started shooting. Soto was shot in the head. Her husband also pulled out his gun. 'They started shooting back and forth and the bullet went through the windshield, hit her and went out the back windshield,' said Matthew Soto, the victim’s brother-in-law," reported a Houston television station.
In Georgetown, Ohio, a 71-year-old man was arrested on Sunday after shooting his adult son John Louderback in the chest. The sheriff's office said the man called 911 and confessed.
Ramona Foreman was found shot in the doorway of the Oakland, Calif., 92nd Avenue Head Start office. The 48-year-old and her sister were walking home from a store when shots rang out. Foreman had been the innocent victim of a drive-by shooting. The victim's granddaughter told a reporter that her grandmother was the 13th person she knows killed this year.
Deputy Sheriff Christopher Parsons, 31, worked the early-morning shift on Saturday, when he took an emergency call to assist an unconscious woman at a trailer park in Mineral Point, Mo. As he helped place the woman in the ambulance, her son came out of the mobile home and fired a rifle, killing Parsons.
On Sunday in New Orleans, three people were shot and killed, including 18-year-old Lawrence Burt, 56-year-old Vivian Snyder, and a 56-year-old Jefferson Parish taxi driver Joseph Wilfred, who was shot behind the wheel. According to an account, he'd been on the job for about three weeks.
That same afternoon, 25-year-old Krystal Garcia Nacoa was allegedly shot to death by her husband, Leonardo Nacoa, 26, at their Porterville, Calif., home.
And that was a low murder rate week - the normal death toll is about double.
In 2011, guns were used to murder 8,583 people living in the U.S., according to the most recent FBI data available. Among those murdered by guns, there were 565 young people under the age of 18, and 119 children ages 12 or younger -- the latter number nearly equivalent to six Newtown mass shootings. And these figures include only homicides.
Then there are the stories of children killed in gun accidents and suicides. In 2010, the most recent year for which detailed Centers for Disease Control data is available, 129 people between the ages of 1 and 19 died in gun accidents. Another 749 took their own lives using a firearm, most of which were owned by a parent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/child-gun-deaths-newtown_n_2347920.html
Then there are the stories of children killed in gun accidents and suicides. In 2010, the most recent year for which detailed Centers for Disease Control data is available, 129 people between the ages of 1 and 19 died in gun accidents. Another 749 took their own lives using a firearm, most of which were owned by a parent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/21/child-gun-deaths-newtown_n_2347920.html
yakherder
老外
No one has made any arguments regarding the absence of guns.
Drugs, prostitution, undocumented immigration, rape, human trafficking, child abuse... They are all not only illegal but, with the possible exception of drug use, aren't even considered culturally acceptable, yet are still widespread problems.
I'm not arguing that there wouldn't be less violence with an absence of guns, I'm arguing that getting rid of them is a lot more complicated than pushing for legal change.
If I could make guns disappear I would. I'd send the entire world back to pre stone age if I could. I don't want anything to do with civilization and all the crap that's come with it. Regardless, all of the above are here to stay.
But if pushing for gun restrictions in an effort to control them while simultaneously pushing for relaxed laws on drugs due to the fact that attempting to control them in the midst of a culture that craves them has been a complete and utter failure makes people feel better, then by all means go for it. I'd personally rather stick with causes I feel will actually be worth fighting.
Drugs, prostitution, undocumented immigration, rape, human trafficking, child abuse... They are all not only illegal but, with the possible exception of drug use, aren't even considered culturally acceptable, yet are still widespread problems.
I'm not arguing that there wouldn't be less violence with an absence of guns, I'm arguing that getting rid of them is a lot more complicated than pushing for legal change.
If I could make guns disappear I would. I'd send the entire world back to pre stone age if I could. I don't want anything to do with civilization and all the crap that's come with it. Regardless, all of the above are here to stay.
But if pushing for gun restrictions in an effort to control them while simultaneously pushing for relaxed laws on drugs due to the fact that attempting to control them in the midst of a culture that craves them has been a complete and utter failure makes people feel better, then by all means go for it. I'd personally rather stick with causes I feel will actually be worth fighting.
yakherder
老外
It's also worth mentioning that the people pushing for these changes aren't the ones who will end up fighting the cartels who will jump at chance to enter a new black market. I might. But that's okay, I can always use some extra income.
