Debate guidelines /Netiquette Rules Review

[Second Summer]

I think we like sarcasm too much to ban it. Used correctly, it can make debates more fun and enjoyable.

As for my #5 about supporting claims with evidence, maybe that one should be re-phrased a bit so it says you have to support your claims with evidence IF someone challenges them.

I agree with what SummerRain suggested about dividing the guidelines up into one part that are absolute rules that the moderators will enforce and another part which is netiquette, i.e. debate forum norms that you're expected to agree to and follow, but it won't get you in trouble with the moderators if you mess up and accidentally do something which is discouraged by the netiquette.

 

[Second Summer]

Another netiquette rule idea I had, maybe useful for making the debate forum a bit more high-brow, would be to discourage personal attacks against non-members. Let's face it, it's not a good argument if it has to stoop to such lows.

 

[beancounter]

Another netiquette rule idea I had, maybe useful for making the debate forum a bit more high-brow, would be to discourage personal attacks against non-members. Let's face it, it's not a good argument if it has to stoop to such lows.

When you say non-members are you referring to celebrities, althetes, politicians, and regular people in the news who do stupid things?

Or do you just mean non-members from the other board?

 

[kazyeeqen]

When you say non-members are you referring to celebrities, althetes, politicians, and regular people in the news who do stupid things?

Or do you just mean non-members from the other board?

Or the other other board?

 

[Second Summer]

I mean everyone. But then I wouldn't necessarily classify criticism of a celebrity's conduct as a personal attack on them, if their conduct is relevant to the thread topic.... But maybe such a rule would just make the guidelines unnecessarily complicated. Maybe it would be sufficient to discourage name-calling.

 

[Spang]

What if they're omnivores? Because we have an entire thread dedicated to how stupid those people are.

 

[Second Summer]

What if they're omnivores? Because we have an entire thread dedicated to how stupid those people are.

That's in a different forum though. The debate guidelines are for the debate forum only.

 

[Spang]

That's in a different forum though. The debate guidelines are for the debate forum only.

That's true - but I guess I don't understand why we wouldn't want the forums that should define us best (the vegetarian and vegan ones) to be held to similar standards.

 

[Second Summer]

That's true - but I guess I don't understand why we wouldn't want the forums that should define us best (the vegetarian and vegan ones) to be held to similar standards.

I think the debate forum is special, and apparently needs special attention in order not to spiral out of control, but I'm just reluctant to impose more draconian measures elsewhere than strictly necessary. If there is a lot of support for your idea to move that thread, then I'm fine with it. Feel free to start a poll or something.

Another idea: Any images posted in the debate forum must be directly relevant to the thread. Animated gifs, lol cats, o'rly owls etc generally don't belong in these threads IMO.

 

[ledboots]

Sometimes an image might lighten the mood though, if the thread got heated.

Or not, idk.

 

[beancounter]

Ok, Hopefully this will be close to the final version. I integrated the suggestions of IS and SR and added the rule about personal attacks, and kept "derailing threads" as a rule, not etiquette:

FORUM RULES
1. Most of the time, an opposing view is not a personal attack. Tone is very difficult to interpret online. If you believe a post is truly a personal attack, then report it. While the moderators consider your report, you may continue posting in the thread, under the assumption that the post was not a personal attack.
2. Name calling is not allowed.
3. Personal attacks are not allowed.
4. Any images posted in the debate forum must be directly relevant to the thread.
5. Do not derail threads. Keep on topic. If a topic brings up another issue, start a new thread.
6. Do not create threads here for the specific purpose of inciting others.
7. Be prepared to support your assertions and arguments with evidence if someone questions your claim. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence.
8. Use common sense. This is not a place to vent; it is a place to rationally discuss topics of interest. If you feel yourself getting upset by a comment, then take a step back and post later.
9. If you quote someone or something, make sure it's clear who or from where you are quoting and also ensure the quoted text is clearly distinguishable from the rest of your post.

ETIQUETTE
1. Use meaningful titles for your threads.
2. Avoid posting “empty” or useless responses, such as ”lol” or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.
3. Take advantage of emoticons when appropriate, as needed.
4. Avoid using CAPS excessively.
5. Please try to avoid “wall of text” or “stream of consciousness” posts. Break your thoughts into meaningful paragraphs.

 

[Blobbenstein]

what about togas....we should all wear togas in the debate forum.

 

[Blobbenstein]

I thought that 4 was still at the idea stage.

 

[Blobbenstein]

Sometimes an image might lighten the mood though, if the thread got heated.

Or not, idk.

yes, it seems silly to complain that threads get too heated, and then ban a mechanism for defusing tension.

 

[Pickle Juice]

It's been my observation that what some people see as lively debate, others see as heated unpleasantness that they can't cope with. I personally do not agree with the opinion that any of the threads I have either participated in myself, or observed, have been what I would call heated, and I view animated gifs, certain smilies, and other images as peanut gallery crap that derails a vigorous discussion. If people think a thread is full of tension that needs to be defused, I think they ought to think twice about what they are even doing reading it. Chances are the people engaging in the actual debate are doing just fine, and don't need comic relief.

I still think you should make this section opt-in only. Though I don't suppose it matters much at this point. Most of the good debaters are gone anyway, and I doubt I'll be posting in this section any more myself.

 

[ledboots]

So these rules are for the debate forum or the whole site?

And not to nitpick, but the grammar in #1.

ETA I have a funny image, but will refrain.

 

[beancounter]

So these rules are for the debate forum or the whole site?

And not to nitpick, but the grammar in #1.

ETA I have a funny image, but will refrain.

Just for the debate forum.

 

[Second Summer]

Ok, Hopefully this will be close to the final version. I integrated the suggestions of IS and SR and added the rule about personal attacks, and kept "derailing threads" as a rule, not etiquette:

FORUM RULES
1. Most of the time, an opposing view is not a personal attack. Tone is very difficult to interpret online. If you believe a post is truly a personal attack, then report it. While the moderators consider your report, you may continue posting in the thread, under the assumption that the post was not a personal attack.
2. Name calling is not allowed.
3. Personal attacks are not allowed.
4. Any images posted in the debate forum must be directly relevant to the thread.
5. Do not derail threads. Keep on topic. If a topic brings up another issue, start a new thread.
6. Do not create threads here for the specific purpose of inciting others.
7. Be prepared to support your assertions and arguments with evidence if someone questions your claim. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence.
8. Use common sense. This is not a place to vent; it is a place to rationally discuss topics of interest. If you feel yourself getting upset by a comment, then take a step back and post later.
9. If you quote someone or something, make sure it's clear who or from where you are quoting and also ensure the quoted text is clearly distinguishable from the rest of your post.

ETIQUETTE
1. Use meaningful titles for your threads.
2. Avoid posting “empty” or useless responses, such as ”lol” or ”cool.” Only post responses when you have something to contribute.
3. Take advantage of emoticons when appropriate, as needed.
4. Avoid using CAPS excessively.
5. Please try to avoid “wall of text” or “stream of consciousness” posts. Break your thoughts into meaningful paragraphs.

I think that's fine with me, except we don't need forum rules #2 and #3 since they are already covered by the VV rules (which are obviously valid for all of VV). And #8 might be hard to enforce as a rule? If there are grammar issues then I don't see them, but as you know English isn't my native tongue.

 

[Muggle]

I don't like the ban on gifs.

I'm guessing Karl mentioned them because of my posts in the UO thread. So I apologise for that, I was just trying to lighten the mood in there which other members, including the debate mod, were doing also. I don't think I've ever used them, or seen another member use them, in a serious debate.

 

[Amy SF]

My own personal feeling is I'd rather not see videos, still pictures, animated gifs or posts containing nothing but emoticons as a replacement for text. If you have something to say, go ahead and say it.